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Persian chainmaille choker/circlet/headdress


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#1 The Lady Bridgit

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 10:16 AM

Beautiful piece that I've worn as a choker, and a Headdress. Trying to see what could be done with it. I've seen it works great either way. I really enjoyed making this project. And as noted, I know my closures aren't great, but I'm trying to keep practicing... Asking $35.00 , is that about right for a completed project like this? What would the range be for something like this?

Thanks for looking <3 :wub:

Lady Bridgit
Kids on cycle and Persian Goddess choker 006.JPG
arabesque 021FIXED.jpg

Edited by The Lady Bridgit, 16 November 2010 - 05:43 PM.

"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved." ~ Helen Keller

"There is that part of ourselves that feels ugly, deformed, unacceptable. That part, above all, we must learn to cherish, embrace, and call by name." ~MacRina Wiederkehr

#2 azbaron

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 04:38 PM

Lady Bridgit,

Please take this with an open mind as it's meant as constructive criticism...

The Bad:

1. It is unlikely that you are going to get any buyers on a forum that where most of the members are able to make pieces like you are showing...
2. Your ring closures are to be frank, horrible. Most of the ring ends don't even touch...this is a bad thing....you really need to practice more before trying to sell anything. I don't know what area you live in, but you may want to see if there are any other maillers in your area that might be able to give you some help on closing rings properly.

The Good:

The designs are not bad and will look even better once you get your ring closures down. Don't give up and practice more. This can be a fun and interesting hobby or business depending on what you want to get out of it.

azbaron
Is that what I think it is...

#3 Frostfly

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 05:09 PM

I'm gonna add a bit more bad,


at 35 bucks you are not getting your time outta the piece, unless you like making 4 bucks an hour. you may not respect your craft enough to charge for it, but please respect the rest of us who DO sell this for a living.

Calling it "persian" is silly, assuming you've done any reading at all you'll know that when talking chainmail persian has a well defined meaning.
A man who works with his hands is a laborer. A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman. A man who works with his hands, his brain and his heart is an artist.-- Louis Nizer

I love to hear myself write... ---Joss Whedon

#4 The Lady Bridgit

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 05:37 PM

Believe me, I understand this isn't perfect. Mostly I was seeking a "what should I" type of comment. I know my closures aren't great. I'm working with bare minimum right now, seeking out to see if I enjoy this. I wasn't trying to "Spite" those who work maille, or insult the ones that make it for a living, but we all have to start somewhere, and that's called the beginning. Frost, please understand, I didn't come in here to get someone to say that I'm insulting them or their trade. But, I will continue to practice, I'm not afraid of criticism that is constructive.


And yes, I know what a "Persian" is in mailling. My 9 year old daughter said it looked like a "persian princess" thing, and I ran with it. Didn't think that was such a big deal.
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved." ~ Helen Keller

"There is that part of ourselves that feels ugly, deformed, unacceptable. That part, above all, we must learn to cherish, embrace, and call by name." ~MacRina Wiederkehr

#5 Rod

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 08:21 PM

Believe me, I understand this isn't perfect. Mostly I was seeking a "what should I" type of comment. I know my closures aren't great. I'm working with bare minimum right now, seeking out to see if I enjoy this. I wasn't trying to "Spite" those who work maille, or insult the ones that make it for a living, but we all have to start somewhere, and that's called the beginning. Frost, please understand, I didn't come in here to get someone to say that I'm insulting them or their trade. But, I will continue to practice, I'm not afraid of criticism that is constructive.


And yes, I know what a "Persian" is in mailling. My 9 year old daughter said it looked like a "persian princess" thing, and I ran with it. Didn't think that was such a big deal.

Ok, I've been taking time to think about this before I responded. I mean this in the most helpful and constructive way possible. I don't think at your skill level you should be trying to sell pieces. For one, as many have said, your closures need a lot of work. As it is now, with the bits poking out, your pieces are dangerous. Someone could seriously scratch themselves on that necklace. Not only is it dangerous, but it hurts your reputation as an artist. People will remember "oh that didn't look so nice" or "yeah her stuff scratched me." Take a couple weeks to practice doing nothing but opening and closing rings. It doesn't take long to nail it. Then make some pieces for sale. It will make you look better.

As far as pricing, what I have learned is that you should charge a cumulative of twice the cost of your materials, plus how much you want to make an hour (I would say not less than $10/hr) + about $5 for overhead (wear and tear on your tools, etc.) + how ever much you want to reinvest in your craft (maybe another $5). So if something cost you $5 to make, you would charge $5 x 2 + $10 + 5 + 5, so $30 for that item. And that is a low price. Personally I would set my sights at more like $20/hr as a new artist, but that's because I think I'm worth it. It takes me a lot of time and effort to learn new patterns and think of new design ideas. At $20 the same piece would sell for $40. Still a great price for something so unique.

But before you think about that, please, consider taking those two pieces apart (you have photos to see how you did them) and redo them while practicing your closures to make the pieces into items you can be proud of.

I hope that doesn't sound mean. I don't mean it to be mean. I just want you to be proud of your work, get a fair price, have fun, and have people come back to you.

Good luck and please update us with new photos so we can see how your closures are progressing.

Rod
Posted Image

Maille Code V2.0 T4.6 R3.2 Ef Fbyz MNb.a W$ C$ G0.8-1.6 I3.1-10.6 N7.6 Pj Dj Xg3 S10

#6 The Lady Bridgit

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 08:58 PM

Updated piece of work. Thank you all for the encouragement. Please, continue to leave your comments
Chain maille Jewelry 007 FIXED.jpg
Butterfly weave bracelet 001 FIXED.jpg
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved." ~ Helen Keller

"There is that part of ourselves that feels ugly, deformed, unacceptable. That part, above all, we must learn to cherish, embrace, and call by name." ~MacRina Wiederkehr

#7 Rod

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Posted 17 November 2010 - 10:04 PM

Updated piece of work. Thank you all for the encouragement. Please, continue to leave your comments
Chain maille Jewelry 007 FIXED.jpg
Butterfly weave bracelet 001 FIXED.jpg



You're getting much better already. :) I notice you still have a little bit of gap in a few places. What helps me fix that is to twist the ring back and forth a little bit while trying to push the ring together until it makes a clicking noise and then I know it's close enough. I hope that helps you. These are so much better. Good job!
Posted Image

Maille Code V2.0 T4.6 R3.2 Ef Fbyz MNb.a W$ C$ G0.8-1.6 I3.1-10.6 N7.6 Pj Dj Xg3 S10

#8 Frostfly

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 01:31 AM

You should be posting these in the discussion forum, not the trading room. You'll get a lot more input.

Edited by Frostfly, 18 November 2010 - 01:32 AM.

A man who works with his hands is a laborer. A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman. A man who works with his hands, his brain and his heart is an artist.-- Louis Nizer

I love to hear myself write... ---Joss Whedon

#9 Llisa

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 07:08 AM

Here's a link to a tut to help you with those closures (which, by the way, appear to be much better but not quite perfect yet) - http://news.urbanmai...seamlessly.html

IMHO, this is THE most important skill to master in mailling. No matter how fabulous your design or how exotic/expensive your materials, your finished pieces will end up looking cheap and shoddy if your closures are even remotely "iffy". Having said that, I think crappy closures are a classic newbie thing, along with marred rings. A person is often so excited to finish off a piece and show it off that the attention to detail gets overlooked in the process - and, of course, it's that very attention to detail that is so crucial.


As for calling piece "Persian", whilst I get the whole "Persian Princess" thing, the problem is that Persian means something very specific in mailling circles, so using that term to refer to a piece that isn't a Persian weave at all makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about to other maillers and could confuse your customers.

With respect to pricing, there are tons of threads on that on these boards - some of them are rather spirited! It is, of course, a very subjective matter and depends very much upon whether you plan on being a hobby mailler or hope to generate a decent, livable income from your maille. (If the latter, I should probably warn you that only a small percentage of maillers manage to do this and even fewer of them are actually getting what I'd call rich from their maille.)

In any event, welcome to the addiction!

Oh, and Frostfly is right, if you move this to the Discussion forum, you'll likely get more/better feedback.

#10 Skedros

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 01:39 PM

No offense, but offering to sell maille to maillers is like trying to sell ice to Eskimos.
Skedros Koslov
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#11 MakerEthos

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 10:22 AM

I like the design of your head piece/choker, it's lovely.

Rod already mentioned the twisting technique when closing rings. This makes life SO much easier and your closures will be that much cleaner. Keeping some sand paper around (grit depends on the metal you are working) can help clean up rough edges too. Experiment on a loose ring before you do it on your piece though.

I would HIGHLY SUGGEST using ONLY saw-cut rings when working with jewelry and ESPECIALLY on anything that will be lying on hair. As someone with a a Metric-crap-Tonne of hair, I know how it can work it's way into the smallest little crack and then tie itself into a knot. This can be avoided by using saw-cut rings with nice tight closures. The extra investment is worth it.

The persian thing you know about. I would maybe rephrase the design name so that it doesn't indicate "Persian" as that can make you look bad to someone who knows anything about different weaves, which can be a total buzzkil as an artist. Even something like "Desert Flower" give the feeling of the exotic, without being erroneous.

One other thing that I think you might want to look at is adjusting the chains that hang down. Currently you have rings that are all the same size, yes? This might look really nice with either full spirals added or doing a japanese chain. Doing spirals that slowly decrease in size could be very pretty, and the japanese would make the chains lie more evenly and look cleaner and more finished.

Also, the color of your gems and the wires you hung them from are LOVELY. You should bring those colors into your design more. It may seem like that would take away from the accents, but it can really make a design look cohesive and finished if you pull it together like that. Experiment and see what you think! What material is the wire that you used to hang the gems on?

As far as cost, depending on your market Rod's formula is a good place to start, with a few tweaks. If you are trying to sell in an area where there are other mailler's around, I would start at $10.00/hour and instead of double cost of materials do just the cost or 1.5 times the cost. If you are selling in an area where this is new, and hard to come by, charge a little more on your hourly rate and do materials x2. This will allow you to get your moneys worth on time, which in turn will make you want to do a better job on your work, which will raise the quality of your work! WIN! The double cost ensures that you can expand your supplies and make more cooler stuff!

Good job, and good luck! Can't wait to see what other pretties you make!

M.E.

Edited by MakerEthos, 03 December 2010 - 10:29 AM.

Maker: A person that makes something.
Ethos: The characteristic spirit of something, as manifested in its beliefs and aspirations.

#12 The Lady Bridgit

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 02:42 PM

I like the design of your head piece/choker, it's lovely.

Rod already mentioned the twisting technique when closing rings. This makes life SO much easier and your closures will be that much cleaner. Keeping some sand paper around (grit depends on the metal you are working) can help clean up rough edges too. Experiment on a loose ring before you do it on your piece though.

I would HIGHLY SUGGEST using ONLY saw-cut rings when working with jewelry and ESPECIALLY on anything that will be lying on hair. As someone with a a Metric-crap-Tonne of hair, I know how it can work it's way into the smallest little crack and then tie itself into a knot. This can be avoided by using saw-cut rings with nice tight closures. The extra investment is worth it.

The persian thing you know about. I would maybe rephrase the design name so that it doesn't indicate "Persian" as that can make you look bad to someone who knows anything about different weaves, which can be a total buzzkil as an artist. Even something like "Desert Flower" give the feeling of the exotic, without being erroneous.

One other thing that I think you might want to look at is adjusting the chains that hang down. Currently you have rings that are all the same size, yes? This might look really nice with either full spirals added or doing a japanese chain. Doing spirals that slowly decrease in size could be very pretty, and the japanese would make the chains lie more evenly and look cleaner and more finished.

Also, the color of your gems and the wires you hung them from are LOVELY. You should bring those colors into your design more. It may seem like that would take away from the accents, but it can really make a design look cohesive and finished if you pull it together like that. Experiment and see what you think! What material is the wire that you used to hang the gems on?

As far as cost, depending on your market Rod's formula is a good place to start, with a few tweaks. If you are trying to sell in an area where there are other mailler's around, I would start at $10.00/hour and instead of double cost of materials do just the cost or 1.5 times the cost. If you are selling in an area where this is new, and hard to come by, charge a little more on your hourly rate and do materials x2. This will allow you to get your moneys worth on time, which in turn will make you want to do a better job on your work, which will raise the quality of your work! WIN! The double cost ensures that you can expand your supplies and make more cooler stuff!

Good job, and good luck! Can't wait to see what other pretties you make!

M.E.



this was the first piece I ever made, I'd never even touched Maille or jump-rings before and a good friend in MI sent me some things to play with. I picked up the concept quickly, just not the technique :wub: just yet! But I am still working hard on my closures, and waiting for smaller rings to get here from TRL. Believe me, I cannot be more excited about getting the new rings so I can make more delicate looking pieces. Thank you for the wonderful advice though, I'm not quitting yet!
"Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved." ~ Helen Keller

"There is that part of ourselves that feels ugly, deformed, unacceptable. That part, above all, we must learn to cherish, embrace, and call by name." ~MacRina Wiederkehr

#13 Mac The Knight

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 05:54 AM

this was the first piece I ever made, I'd never even touched Maille or jump-rings before and a good friend in MI sent me some things to play with. I picked up the concept quickly, just not the technique :wub: just yet! But I am still working hard on my closures, and waiting for smaller rings to get here from TRL. Believe me, I cannot be more excited about getting the new rings so I can make more delicate looking pieces. Thank you for the wonderful advice though, I'm not quitting yet!


Lady bridgit

Dont let the carnies get you down we are not in the middle ages where the maille needs to withstand blows from a sword I for one am glad I do not make this stuff for a living as I make far more working on those things we have in the twenty first century call magic computer boxes. One day when they decide to come out of there fantasy roll playing game maybe a nice girl like you will notice them.

Edited by Mac The Knight, 25 August 2011 - 05:55 AM.


#14 Peach

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 09:43 PM

Lady bridgit

Dont let the carnies get you down we are not in the middle ages where the maille needs to withstand blows from a sword I for one am glad I do not make this stuff for a living as I make far more working on those things we have in the twenty first century call magic computer boxes. One day when they decide to come out of there fantasy roll playing game maybe a nice girl like you will notice them.

Okay, honestly, I see problems with this comment. The "carnies" have been trying to help her get better. While they may seem a little abrasive at times, they just want to help both Bridgit and the community as a whole. Insulting people isn't going to make you look good for white-knighting online, it's going to make you seem rude and ungrateful. And I for one, feel less inclined to help someone who seems rude.

Personally, I think that she's making good progress, though I disagree with the "Persian" thing. Posting it on here as "Persian" may have been misleading, most people don't care if the weave is Persian or European or whatever other name we give it. They know Jap weaves as "flowers" for the most part. If she's going to call it "Persian" because it looks like it could be from Persia then it works. Just, probably not the way she should refer to it on a site where we have weaves that are dubbed "Persian".




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