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Posts posted by lorenzo

  1. Well, years of research and testing generally, but point by point;

    1. More solid, both designs have a scale held in place by 4 rings, but in mine the scale is locked in place by the arrangement and weight of the armor, the historical scales just hang off the weave and can be lifted and shifted around easily.

    2. Heavier, there are more rings per area of each scale in the historical piece. If the weight were equalized by using heavier plate for the scales in my version, it would be stronger armor for the same weight.

    3. Less flexible, the historical plumata restricts the natural stretch of the european 4-1 weave to a minimal level, my design is based on the more flexible Japanese 4-1 weave and has a max stretch of about 24% with ideal ring sizes.

    4. A huge PITA to make, I think your prices make my point here for me, there are a lot more rings in the historical version it takes a long time to put together. Mine has only twice as many rings as scales and the process can even be automated.

    But in all seriousness, I already know your position and you already know mine, let's not dance this dance again.

    I'm willing to put my design up against the historical one in head to head testing, similar sizes, weight and materials and see which one comes out on top.

  2. Can anyone tell me where to go to get some more pics/instructions on this type, I like the look of this one and it seems more solid than the scales available from TRL. If I am looking at this right, each scale is attached with 4 rings...but, I cant be sure because the pics arent that good...


    Well it's really not more solid, in fact it's less solid. But it is heavier, less flexible and a huge PITA to make. In fact the only benefit it has over my scale design is historical accuracy.

    there was a tutorial floating around at one time, it was entitled "Constructing a Lorica Plumata" by Ernst der Dunkelwolf, the internet seems to have swallowed it up. Maybe if you ask around at one of the other boards someone has saved a copy.

  3. As the person who makes the modified hard wire cutters, I can tell you that there is no way to be sure. Each one is ground by hand and will be slightly different they will cut the size rings that they are rated for, smaller than that is a crap shoot. However if you order them and make a note on the order of what rings you would like to be able to cut I'm sure that could be accommodated as long as it's reasonable.

  4. Was it just me, or did the whiny duke have on a shirt that was made the wrong direction?

    Not only that, in one scene he actually had it on backwards. They were alternating rows of aluminum and neoprene, so the double row of aluminum was at the back, looked like a bright line across his chest.

  5. It's extremely specialized, extremely finicky (note Lorenzo's claims of 1/1000" degrees of precision being in the ballpark for sensitivity), with tons of variables. Their machines take forever to set up, and work with only one specific wire, ring size, and weave.. unless you want to retool them.

    Just to be clear, not every setting needs to be within 1/1000", especially on the larger machines. Usually you can get away with a few things being "out" a bit but any misalignments show up as flaws in the finished weave. In the same sense it is possible to slightly tweak a setting in another way to counteract an imprecision in another setting. I could even run rings that are slightly smaller or larger if I really wanted to, but the problem is that these improper setting gradually wear into the tooling as the machine runs and eventually ruins it.

  6. I don't remember exactly who made what now, it was mostly Mas, Pure Evil, Misshapen Gumby and I who worked on the scale stuff. Lot's of people collaborated on the maille shirts for minor characters, and yes they were all made going the wrong way on purpose. That's what they wanted.

  7. I am kinda new on this site i have been doing maille on and off for about 3 years.

    i was wondering if there was a way i could take an old 110 stick welder that was given to me and make one of these spot welders everyone is using.

    You could make a cheap TIG welder out of that which would do the job but be tricky to use. stick to tig conversion plans are rampant on the internet.

  8. Sure, you can compare YOUR skill to YOUR skill - but you can't compare someone else's skill in one field to another one's skill in a different field unless you're breaking it down into scientific means of monitoring how many electrons are fired off in the process :D

    Yep you've got a point there, I'm not in anyone else's head or body so I can't speak for others but really no one can. I would illustrate the difference for me in this way. When we work in maille we measure in 1/16", 1/32" or sometimes 1/64" increments, it's very rare to need to go to 1/128". When I work with the chain machines I measure in 1/1000" and often it's still not accurate enough.

    In fact, I'm asking him about the possibility of doing mesh with aluminum and silver on the jewelry scale for this purpose (not welded/soldered, though)

    Which is what lead me to the first question - at what point will the mass production of maille end so can try to avoid producing items by hand that can/might possibly be machine made - more of a "fashion trend" question, I suppose.

    That's one of the projects I'm working on, it is likely going to happen but there are a lot of difficulties to work through yet and it will be a while. I'm also experimenting with the semi-automated production of Japanese weaves and scale fabric with promising results, those might be closer to production.

  9. Apples and Oranges. Honestly - two completely different subjects: hand made jewelry and hand made machines.

    When you're talking about two very different things such as this you cannot compare the level of "skill" required for one to the skill level required of the other.

    Actually I can compare them, quite easily, since I am experienced with both. And quite frankly the idea of skills not translating over to one field from another is total bunk. Sure there is still a learning curve but this is not WoW here the same "skills" apply regardless of what type of product you create. You don't have to re-learn your hand to eye coordination or mechanical aptitude for each new task, just learn to apply the skills you already have. I agree with you one one point however, some people have it and some just don't, call it skill or talent or whatever it amounts to the same thing.

    If one person can conceive, sketch, design, and craft a machine then they have talent, not just skill...and that's a different story because that's not how these machines are made, now is it?

    This is about the same as saying that every person who makes chainmaille must independently conceive, sketch, design and craft european 4-1. Why are machinists expected to reinvent their own cams, gears and screws when the parts already exist. Should they be expected to smelt their own steel too? Do you? If my brother makes my rings is my maille any less hand made? But besides that, in many cases what you propose IS exactly how these machines are made. Most niche industries don't start out with a team of engineers, machinists and designers to make things, it usually all comes down to the one person who started the company.

  10. actually, (speaking strictly in the form of science) it is sound and proven (for the most part).

    Ok, I actually stopped reading everything at about this point in the thread, because frankly someone needs to either increase or decrease their medication, preferably on the advice of a doctor. But I don't mean to seem like I'm picking on one individual, plenty of other people in this thread seem to hold to the erroneous notion that hand made is better than machine made. Honestly the only way that I can tell the difference with the high end stuff is that the machine made is too perfect.

    My view on the subject is that the machine that makes the chain is simply a higher form of art. The level of skill that must be attained to create the machine is more than 100 times that for a simple chain, and those machines ARE hand made. Hell, the skill required just to run one of those machines is many times greater than to just hook a few rings together, and there are very few people on this forum who are qualified enough to even have a valid opinion on that.

    As to the opinion that machines are somehow "bad", that they take jobs etc. This is an erroneous line of thinking that has been thrown about since the medieval era, history has proved it wrong. Machines actually create better and safer jobs with a huge increase in production of goods. When Gutenberg introduced his printing press a few scribes did find less demand for their skills, but are there more or less people working in the publishing industry today? Was that machine beneficial? Did it create or eliminate jobs? The answer is clear and is repeated again and again ad infinitum ad nauseum up to the present era. It's just the nature of change.

  11. Like Rosie said, enforcement grade tasers are pretty scarce around here. Apparently TRL has some connections in the RCMP but it's not looking promising. of course anyone with some maille and a more liberal police policy towards taser use could test this on their own.

  12. I tried this over Christmas with a civilian model stungun. A pretty high powered one at 600KV I did several sets of tests using varying blocking materials. In short any metal armor rendered the stungun completely ineffective. From thick gauge Al to 24 g Ti shorted out the device with no noticeable effects, even if the electrodes went right through the holes in the weave and touched bare skin.

    Although I don't have the resources to test this with an enforcement grade taser, based on the tests I've already conducted and my understanding of how electricity works I predict similar results.

  13. Nice to see you back on the forums again. If you want some scales just let me know and I'll send you some.

    One of my personal favorite ring replacements is Loren's wire knots, The Japanesesque shirt he did is very nice, if you haven't seen it yet you should check it out.

    I also think that the "spiders" that Whiting Davis uses for their decorative mesh have a lot more potential than what they are currently used for.

    I've personally messed around a lot with various types of washers, pop tabs, some coins, lockout tags, zip ties. Mostly just experiments from my "quest for scales" period. It would be nice to see pop tabs done differently too, I've linked them up like my scales before, they work pretty well and have a lot more stretch than the other way.

  14. Just so you know, the new anodized aluminum scales will be superior to the old ones in almost every other way. I think it would be extremely counter productive to petition against innovating to make better products. Also as Norse Dave mentioned there is another source for colored scales, I'm sure he would be more than happy to help with that.

  15. Just an FYI for anyone planning to make scale flowers, the new TRL anodized aluminum scales will not be colored on the edges or back face of the scale. If you want to make flowers better buy the scales for them now. Once they're gone, they're gone. I guess that puts the final nail in the coffin of the flower kits idea as well.