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sicangu2011

Question about scalemail and chainmail

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Hello, I would like to make a 6 inch by 6 inch swath of 6 in 1 european chainmail. I am interested in the stainless steel punched rings that are 16g Wire diam. 0.062" 1.6mm 3/8"ID I see that the bag contains 300 rings. Would that be enough to make a 6 inch by 6 inch swath?

Also, I am interested in the small stainless steel scales and like the chainmail, I would like to make a 6 inch by 6 inch swath. How many scales would I need for that and is it possible to rivet the rings with the scalemail?

My last question is what size of rivets would I need to make riveted chainmail/scale mail? I am doing this for college in a "how to speech" so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you so much for your time!

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for the small SS scales you need 1000 per square ft, so for a 6x6 square you would need approximately 500 scales and 2 rings per scale so 1000 rings

I can't find a rings per square ft for the round ones, usually is says under stats, but it would probably be comparable to the number of 16g 3/8 per square/2 for a 6x6 square.

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for the small SS scales you need 1000 per square ft, so for a 6x6 square you would need approximately 500 scales and 2 rings per scale so 1000 rings

I can't find a rings per square ft for the round ones, usually is says under stats, but it would probably be comparable to the number of 16g 3/8 per square/2 for a 6x6 square.

Not to nitpick, but 6" x 6" would be only one quarter of a square foot, so only 250 scales and 500 rings.

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Alright, I am curious if buying the nickel plated scales would be a better deal than the stainless steel scales. The nickel scales are cheaper and are thicker however they are also plated which means that the protective covering can be rubbed off. I would like to have the best scales that are battle ready and have the best weather proofing. Any thoughts on which scales? Thanks again for your help!

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You might want to define 'battle ready'. SCA style combat? LARPing boffers? Rebated steel? If you mean boffer battling then the small stainles steel scales are fine. For that matter the annodized aluminum will hold up well against that too. If you mean wood or rattan I would personally choose the larger scales as they are usually thicker. Furthermore if it is the SCA you are talking about, safety marshals in some kingdoms consider them to be the same as mail, and will require you to have rigid protection underneath. Either way you will want a gambeson on underneath the scales. I won't even mention steel...

To sum up, more detailed information will get you a more detailed response.

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You might want to define 'battle ready'. SCA style combat? LARPing boffers? Rebated steel? If you mean boffer battling then the small stainles steel scales are fine. For that matter the annodized aluminum will hold up well against that too. If you mean wood or rattan I would personally choose the larger scales as they are usually thicker. Furthermore if it is the SCA you are talking about, safety marshals in some kingdoms consider them to be the same as mail, and will require you to have rigid protection underneath. Either way you will want a gambeson on underneath the scales. I won't even mention steel...

To sum up, more detailed information will get you a more detailed response.

I was thinking of battle ready in the sense of if I took a real sword to the armor and started hacking away at it. I want the armor to be as realistic as possible as if it were really made by medieval blacksmiths. I apologize but I am not up to speed on SCA or LARP the only medieval battle role playing I am used to is Dagorhir which is battling with foam weapons. I wikied SCA and that's the kind of role playing that I want this armor to be made out of. Unfortunately I am on a tight budget and I cannot afford the bigger scales. So my next question is I really like the stainless steel but the nickel plated mild steel ones are thicker however they are plated and thus the protective material will be worn off. Which scales would you suggest that would resist the elements and be the strongest?

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I've intentionally tried to corrode my nickel plated scales, and so far they've been very resistant. Tumbled them with steel, bathed them in salt water, buried them for a few weeks, left them out in the humid summer; so far, no real damage. They certainly have gotten kind of icky, but so far I've really been able to clean them with some good scrubbing. I doubt that SCA weapons (which aren't sharp) would be able to take off the plating.

I'm sure that eventually the plating could be worn or beaten off, but I don't think it would happen too readily.

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I've intentionally tried to corrode my nickel plated scales, and so far they've been very resistant. Tumbled them with steel, bathed them in salt water, buried them for a few weeks, left them out in the humid summer; so far, no real damage. They certainly have gotten kind of icky, but so far I've really been able to clean them with some good scrubbing. I doubt that SCA weapons (which aren't sharp) would be able to take off the plating.

I'm sure that eventually the plating could be worn or beaten off, but I don't think it would happen too readily.

Yeah I don't think SCA would be around for very long if they role played with real weapons LOL. So you personally used the nickel plated and cleaned them every now and then? I take it that your scalemail is holding up rather well? Have you or anyone else tried the stainless steel and how it held up? Thank you all for your time and your patience I am rather a newb and my only experience with chainmailing was making Japanese 4 in 1 and overlapping the rings haha.

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You actually get more square feet of coverage per dollar with the large scales over the small scales. As an example: the nickel plated mall scales are eighteen and change for a thousand. The large scales are thirty five and a bit. 1000 small scales cover a square foot; 1000 large scales cover just over 3 square feet. You need at least two rings per scale; so you can cover 3 square feet with 1000 large scales and 2000 rings or 3000 small scales and 6000 rings to cover the same area.

Since you are larping, both the stainless and nickel plated scales, large or small will hold up very well with minimal maintenance. I would suggest that you wear at least a thick shirt or leather subarmalis type garment beneath the scales; they are pointy on both ends, so getting hit with even a foam weapon can cause a bit of uncomfortable poking.

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You actually get more square feet of coverage per dollar with the large scales over the small scales. As an example: the nickel plated mall scales are eighteen and change for a thousand. The large scales are thirty five and a bit. 1000 small scales cover a square foot; 1000 large scales cover just over 3 square feet. You need at least two rings per scale; so you can cover 3 square feet with 1000 large scales and 2000 rings or 3000 small scales and 6000 rings to cover the same area.

Since you are larping, both the stainless and nickel plated scales, large or small will hold up very well with minimal maintenance. I would suggest that you wear at least a thick shirt or leather subarmalis type garment beneath the scales; they are pointy on both ends, so getting hit with even a foam weapon can cause a bit of uncomfortable poking.

okay so you are saying that buying the bigger scales would be a better deal? Thank you all for your opinions and your time you all have been of great value to me!

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I've intentionally tried to corrode my nickel plated scales, and so far they've been very resistant. Tumbled them with steel, bathed them in salt water, buried them for a few weeks, left them out in the humid summer; so far, no real damage. They certainly have gotten kind of icky, but so far I've really been able to clean them with some good scrubbing. I doubt that SCA weapons (which aren't sharp) would be able to take off the plating.

I'm sure that eventually the plating could be worn or beaten off, but I don't think it would happen too readily.

The edges of these scales will rust once the oil and grease are washed off. The edges are not nickel plated

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The edges of these scales will rust once the oil and grease are washed off. The edges are not nickel plated

Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I realized that the edges would rust when I was looking at them last night. I think I am just going to go with the stainless steel. I wonder why they wouldn't plate the edges of them though. I know they were punched out of sheet metal and perhaps they could electroplate the metal? Problem with electroplating is that you would end up with two massive large nickel plates on top and bottom and the edge would only get a small amount haha

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Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I realized that the edges would rust when I was looking at them last night. I think I am just going to go with the stainless steel. I wonder why they wouldn't plate the edges of them though. I know they were punched out of sheet metal and perhaps they could electroplate the metal? Problem with electroplating is that you would end up with two massive large nickel plates on top and bottom and the edge would only get a small amount haha

If I am not mistaken they plate the whole sheet and then punch out the scales. Far more time and cost efficient than plating individual scales.

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@Apprentice: that does make a lot of sense to do it the way you described.

@Senior Member: I know that kind of feeling trust me at 12 midnight my brain is done with activities LOL.

Although here's another question I am wondering about before I order rings tonight. Would ordering 16gauge 3/8" ID rings be better for the scales or the 5/16" ID? Since the 5/16" rings are smaller than the 3/8" I am thinking the 5/16" would be better because it would pull the scales together in a closer weave what do you all think? I am sorry for all the questions don't you hate it when you think you have everything straightened out and then another question pops up? Thank you all for your patience and understanding you all have been great!

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5/16", that's what the large scales were meant to be used with. I've never tried, but I feel like using 3/8" would leave undesirable gaps.

But if you intend to put this through some abuse, as you seem to plan on doing, you'll probably want to use the split rings. With standard jump rings there's the chance for scales to slip out with a good thwack, or even just after normal wear.

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5/16", that's what the large scales were meant to be used with. I've never tried, but I feel like using 3/8" would leave undesirable gaps.

But if you intend to put this through some abuse, as you seem to plan on doing, you'll probably want to use the split rings. With standard jump rings there's the chance for scales to slip out with a good thwack, or even just after normal wear.

I don't even plan on using the split rings. I plan on just riveting the entire thing. I would like to see the scalemail withstand a good beating without me having to worry about the scales slipping out. I am looking at the overlapped rings on the site and I thought that I could flatten those rings out and rivet the scalemail with the 5/16" as you suggested. I think you can rivet scalemail with no problem correct?

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using larger rings then the recommended will make them lay differently, but I don't think there should gapping between scales, they just won't overlap as much as they would with 5/16. as far as rivetting, I think splitrings would be easier. or spot welding might. flattening and rivetting every ring will be time consuming but should definitely keep scales from slipping.

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By gaps I mean like how with the "open" scale pattern you can sometimes see the hopes in the tops of the scales, I feel like using even larger rings would exacerbate that

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@calisandra I understand what you are saying. I would like to make the scales as historically accurate as possible. LOL. I am looking at the split rings right now and they say that they are .184" ID If I used the 5/16" rings there wouldn't be gapping but they won't overlay as much. Wouldn't the 5/16" suffice for the scales? What would the overlap look like with the scales if I used the 5/16" instead of the .184"? I know I am asking the impossible question here I am just wondering if you could give me an estimate. The only reason I am asking is because I printed off their ring size chart and I can't find the .184" size on there.

@Milquetoast Yeah, I don't want to use a very large ring for the scales. I wish they had a 1/4" ring as that would probably do well for the scales and chainmail.

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5/16 is the recommended size using two rings per scale. 1/4 in. rings produce a tighter weave that doesn't bind; at least in a 36 scale trial patch I did. You can also weave the scales in a full 4in1 pattern (3 rings per scale) using 5/16 rings and end up with a tighter weave. The downsides to both of those methods are more materials to cover the same amount of surface area and more weight. My first scale shirt made of hardened steel scales and galvy rings woven full 4in1 weighs 35.5 lbs. The aluminum scale shirt woven with split rings and mail for the collar and under the arms looks like it will top out just over 20lbs. (Still making it so that could change...) You can check out the tutorial I did for comparison pics of the standard and 4in1 weaves. I will add I have not yet had a scale slip out using butted rings in the 4in1 weave; the 5th ring pulls the other 4 in and takes some of the load off. So you just have to figure out whether the extra cost and weight is worth it for you or not.

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I have use 7/32 and 1/4 inch for the large scales and they look like this 284576_266674236683524_100000228492672_1262671_4732260_s.jpg these were 18gSS 7/32, with split rings they look like this.. 199403_213486532002295_100000228492672_965328_2656489_s.jpg they lay pretty much the same, biggest difference I have seen is weight.

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I have use 7/32 and 1/4 inch for the large scales and they look like this 284576_266674236683524_100000228492672_1262671_4732260_s.jpg these were 18gSS 7/32, with split rings they look like this.. 199403_213486532002295_100000228492672_965328_2656489_s.jpg they lay pretty much the same, biggest difference I have seen is weight.

Wow, that is awesome. I really like your work!

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