8 replies to this topic

[Zeroignite]

So a while back I ordered some custom-sized anodized niobium rings. I'll copy the email exchanges verbatim. There was also a phone call I made, which is alluded to in one of the messages.

I'm interested in ordering some custom saw cut anodized niobium rings. I'd like 1oz each of two different colors (not yet decided) in your 17ga wire, aiming for a final AR of 3.1-3.2. Could I get an estimate on this order?

No problem - $21/Oz with a 2 Oz min order is fine (min for the size not the color).  Just email me when you are ready to order.

On May 15th I called Jon to place the order, as well as some other standard-stock rings. I decided on Light Blue and Indigo as the anodization colors. The order total was ~$132 after shipping.

I'm having an issue with this order (#<redacted>). Where I requested rings with a final AR of between 3.1 and 3.2. When I measure the closed rings send with the order, I get an AR of about 2.95. These rings are for a Vipera Berus bracelet. I know the shipped rings are definitely AR<3.0, since that weave works well with SXAA20332, but trying to weave Vipera Berus with the shipped rings quickly becomes impossible.
The guess I have is that whoever wound the custom rings planned for a higher-springback material than the niobium.
My ideal solution would be to be shipped another batch of appropriately-sized rings. If you're limited by mandrel sizes, I'd accept an AR up to 3.4. I'd like to receive replacement rings as quickly as possible.
Thanks

You can return in trade for slightly larger rings or keep them and I'll send new ones.
New rings from 0.051 niobium with an OD of 0.26" to 0.265.
If you send back by regular mail (i.e. padded envelope) marked "Canadian Goods Returning". I'll send the new rings the same way within 1 business day of confirming.
If you want to keep the rings you have I'll offer you a 20% discount on them - i.e. you pay $33.60 - no shipping and you get both sets.

I don't understand how returning the mis-coiled rings would benefit you. Your standard returns page says in part "We do not accept returns on custom items and uncut coils. Custom items include any shirt modified to fit the buyer, any custom item not listed on our site, any pre-overlapped rings and any cut/seemed fabric." The offered discount of less than $10 really isn't worth the two weeks of frustration caused by this error, especially since I could get an identical discount rate by buying rings in bulk order. If I were to exchange the rings, you have not offered to cover the cost of return shipping, which is implied to be credited on your standard returns page.
In short, I feel like neither of the options you've offered adequately solve this problem. I could return the incorrect rings for exchange if you were to offer a substantial discount credit to my account, as well as compensation for return shipping. However, I still think the best option would be to simply send me up-to-spec rings as I originally requested, as I'm unclear why you'd like the custom rings returned.

I was trying to offer a fair settlement.  We are The Ring Lord - we sell "custom rings" from stock all the time.  Its a pain in the ass but we make mistakes and put custom made rings on special on a regular basis.  As you may have noticed its expensive wire.
The standard policy on these would be "no returns on custom items" but I'm trying to go a bit further for you.  We do not reimburse shipping costs for return as a standard rule - it is not implied on the returns page.
Also you can not get " an identical discount rate by buying rings in bulk order"   these are custom rings and the same rules do not apply
Keep in mind that it is possible that the rings do have a AR of 3.1 and you have made a mistake.
I'll offer you another option.  You can return the rings.  we'll credit you for what you paid for the rings and return shipping.  No replacement rings just your money back for a custom product we went out of our way to make for you.  You are not out a cent - you are out a bit of time but no nearly as much time as I lost making the rings and dealing with the problem.
I am trying to work with you - what can you offer to show me the same?

The thing is, you offer the custom rings service and there is the expectation that ordered rings will be quality-controlled before shipment. You said yourself in our phone conversation that you measured the AR of the uncut spring as exactly 3.1, and we both know that the kerf from the saw cut would result in a lower AR, i.e. an out-of-tolerance ring. I was quoted a price for these custom rings and placed my order accordingly; you seem to imply that this is some sort of favor but it's offered as a standard part of your business. Returning the rings as per your above offer may not appear to cost me financially, but in fact I am out weeks of valuable time. I'm a jeweler working out of home and struggling for every commission I can get, whereas you deal with thousands of dollars a day in orders. I am not asking you to go out of your way, I am asking to receive the rings as I ordered them.
I've bought rings from you several times before, and the customer service has always struck me as quick and courteous. This feels like a shocking deviation from that. I would very much like to be able to continue doing business with you in the future, but so far this interaction has severely lowered my opinion of you and your company. My original request still seems entirely reasonable. Please show me that  you are willing to extend the same goodwill to me that I've given your company, and make this right.

You want to be able to keep the rings you have and have them replaced with rings 0.005" bigger at 100% my cost right?  Nothing else will do?  If the rings don't meet your requirements why do you want them?
I'm still being quick and courteous - just because you are not getting exactly what you want when you want it doe not mean you need to call my customer service a shocking deviation from quick and courteous.  I accepted full responsibility for the rings and will give you 100% credit including all shipping costs.  what more can I reasonably offer?  Demanding more then this is poor vendor service on your part - I tried and I'm asking you to try as well - your $42 does not buy the right to be insulting.
I did do you a favor - I waived typical min orders and typical min set up fees.  You may not have realized you were getting a deal but you were.  I like to help out my customers.  I promise you that you will not find any other company in the world willing to make you these rings at this price.
We are very sorry the custom order did not work out but we can not just send you free product.  Remember the customer vendor relationship goes 2 ways.  If I offer you reasonable solutions but you demand more then we burn a bridge.  I'll get annoyed and not be interested in working with you in the future and you'll be annoyed and stop buying from us - everyone will lose.
I welcome you to contact one of the other 2 companies in the world that I know of that can supply this product and see if you prefer them - companies are Metal Designz and C & T Designs - quick Google search will find either.
I withdraw my offer to replace the rings.  Your options now are to keep the rings or return them for a full refund.  To get the custom rings you now need the 2 Oz min order per size or a $5 per size set up fee.  This is the not doing you a favor deal.
Tell you

I feel like I explained the situation and my desired outcome clearly and calmly, and did not ask for anything unreasonable. In the end, I guess I'll keep the out-of-spec rings... guess I'll have to figure out something else to do with them. I still don't have the rings I ordered. This strikes me as terrible customer relations, but I've posted the entire logs to let everyone else weigh in and make up their own minds. That's what a customer feedback subforum is for, right?

Edited: fixed a formatting issue.

Edited by Zeroignite, 01 June 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[TrenchCoatGuy]

If you need an AR range of .1, you are probably better making the rings yourself.
If you asked me to give you rings with an AR around 3.1-3.2 without telling me the weave, I would assume you were making JPL... where I would give you slightly smaller rings.

Did you mention the weave in the phone call?

Also, the returned rings would probably end up in the "specials" for resale if you still didn't understand what they could do with them.

[bikepartjewelry]

I guess I'm a little confused. What is your expectation? That they give you the incorrect rings at no charge and make new rings for you at the same price? I don't think that's a realistic expectation. I think Jon offered you a reasonable solution...and to not have to pay shipping either way is great.

Yes, I think things could have been worded differently, and perhaps the withdrawal of the offer at the end of the last email may not have been the best way to handle it, though I can certainly understand the inclination behind it. But I still think that acting as if they owe you something more than remaking the rings in the correct size is unrealistic. It's like me having someone order a bra; I make it to the correct size specs but when it gets there, it doesn't fit as perfectly as they think it should. Are they going to tell me to make them a whole new bra? No...they'll send it back to me and I'll fix it and send it back. I think that's quite similar to the situation in which you currently find yourself. TRL made the rings wrong, they took responsibility for it, offered you what I think is a valid solution, but it seems you want the bra that doesn't fit as well as a new one. That just doesn't track for me.

Am I understanding what you want from them correctly?

Edited by bikepartjewelry, 01 June 2012 - 06:25 PM.

[Mdewaddic]

While getting rings that aren't perfect can be a pain (and mess up commissions), I find myself agreeing with Jon and Jodey. Full reimbursement including shipping is something most companies simply will not do. Even companies that offer replacement generally make you pay return shipping. Jon sounds like he's going out of his way (as I've found TRL generally does) to help.

[Canisunis]

I must weigh in on this one too. I can see how a supply issue can impact a jewelers bottom line, but it sounds like Jon was trying to make it right. An offer to cover your return shipping and refund the price on the original purchase seems more than reasonable to me. In the same situation I think I would have taken them up on the replacement rings and the return of the original ones. (unless i had a decent use for the original ones)
Sorry, Z, but I agree with Jon and the other responders.

[Zeroignite]

Okay. I've given myself a bit of time and thought to get over the initial frustration. I do still need the rings as I originally ordered them, but I can see how my first request was seen as unreasonable. The Ring Lord provides me with good quality materials overall; I don't want to burn any bridges between us. Your offer to return my money was a gesture of good faith, but at the end of the day my customers do need their commissions fulfilled. f it's the only option available to me, I'd like to buy the rings I currently have for $33 as quoted above, and be shipped the correctly coiled rings I originally ordered. Any final, closed-ring AR between 3.1 and 3.4 is fine. I'll do my best to make something of the wrong-sized rings to recover the cost.
This engagement really spiraled out of hand. I hope that we can reach a sensible agreement.

Edited: this forum seems to love to screw with my formatting the moment I hit submit.

Edited by Zeroignite, 03 June 2012 - 09:14 PM.

[Zeroignite]

Things have been satisfactorily resolved. Perhaps not what I asked for originally, but we ended up somewhere reasonable.

[madd-vyking]

Glad to hear ya'll kissed and made up (not trying to sound nearly as much a schmarta as that sounds)...TRL is really the best around for what they sell. And I do have to agree with the others, I think as a vendor TRL offered you as good a deal as you could possibly get. If you'd made a custom piece for a customer on a deadline, and the folks were unsatisfied, and demanded they keep for free what you already sent, plus a replacement piece that was what they originally ordered, would you be down with that? And I can only imagine what wasn't typed but maybe muttered under Jon's breath as he typed. Glad everything worked out, though, really!

[sakredchao]

zero, i've told you before and i'll say it again more times than you want to hear it.. wind your own.
i know, i know, space, time, etc..

i can't remember ever thinking, "i got the wrong product" when ordering wire. not even once by accident.
i got a wrong mandrel once, but jon and bernice made it right.

fwiw, i think that you were being a tad unreasonable. i say this to you as an irc chat friend. i understand being frustrated because it seems like you are letting your customer down. communicate with your customer. explain that hiccups out of your control happen and you are working on it.

also, i hope you got 50% nonrefundable up front from your customer. i've never had someone come back and pay for a custom order who didn't give me something down on it.. if i have my setup next time i go to ABQ, i'll show you the piece i'm thinking of.

also, really look up C&T.. i have no experience with metaldesignz, but C&T are great people. we were supposed to meet up with ang at some point.. :
i just made myself sad..

Edited by sakredchao, 09 June 2012 - 08:26 AM.