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Katlee

Captive inverted ring start, first time

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Ok, keep in mind that I am a newbie when it comes to any of these, but... holy crap, this is a pain in the patoot! :dizzy: Is there any real trick to this, or do I actually need to have a third arm implanted to do it? I've managed a few, and one of the rings got itself turned at some point (not sure how)... I'll fix it when I get a little further on.

Oh, and as far as critiques for me... I'm an artist. I have dealt with critiques on my art work which are a LOT more personal than chainmail is to me, at least at this point. I have had people tell me how pretty my stuff is, but I should be doing it in a completely different way and style from how I do, and like to, paint/draw. You won't upset me at all, trust me. :D

But yeah, if anyone has any tips or tricks for this one, I'm all ears... It's neat looking and very much helps it keep it's shape a lot nicer, but wow...

This is 20g 5/32" aluminum rings:

post-16149-0-12490900-1347171254_thumb.jpg

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Yeah, it can definitely be finicky to start, but after you're a few sets in it'll stabilize. What may or may not be helpful is to have the next three silver (in your case) rings all opened and ready to go, stick your green one in, then hold it in one hand-- don't set it down or move it around-- and grab a silver ring and use the fingers that are already holding the piece to close it partway. Just enough so that it won't fall off, but that way it'll hold it closed. Once all 3 are on you can go back and properly close them, and repeat.

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Not exactly sure what you want to know .. so I will say what I see ...

Looks like captive inverted round mail. Ya that first rings wonky but no biggie, since it seems to stablize and its on the end <easily fixable when your done>

The 2nd green ring is not normally there and can could alot of pain since it's stretching things just where you don't "normally" want them to stretch .. however, that said if that's the look your going for .. go for it!

note green middle ring - top silver ring, your closures look very nice, except that one, maybe because of the non-normal ring? ..

Otherwise a very nice start.

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Yeah, I expect that middle green ring is likely part of the problem...it's likely making everything a bit to tight to work right--typically you set a captive in every other linkage---but like Euar said, if that's what you're going for, figure away around it...

I also think it's probably easier to start a captive inverted round off as just inverted round...once you've got a stable starter strip going, then try filling it with whatever you'd like to stuff in there. When you're done you can disconnect the starter strip and save it for next time.

You'll probably find that starting a length of any kind of chain is the tough part, keeping the pattern going is easy. Having a starter strip of different weaves in different sizes can make the experience alot quicker overall, and less frustrating. I even have most of my starter scraps in a not-oft used metal/color---so I can see where they start and stop easier.

(also--that wire you've got holding the beginning is a good help to keep things held together as you start, as I'm sure you've found)

Looks good--keep having fun!

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It doesn't look like you need many tips or tricks. It should be a simple affair to lengthen the chain now that you've got a good start. This weave is notorious for being difficult to begin the first few times one weaves it, and especially so with smaller rings.

I find that two empty cages on an end of CIR is usually enough to keep any subsequent captives from popping out, although the wire tie off, or just one ring passing through three cage rings works temporarily until the end of the weave is fastened to whatever it's being fastened to.

Fixing that sideways ring should be as simple as removing the tie wire, folding back the two empty cages, then flipping it sideways with your pliers or fingers.

Once started, this chain is one of the fastest to weave, in my experience.

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Thanks folks. I managed to get a few more woven on last night before just going to bed, haven't tried again this morning but it has gotten easier as I've gone, that's for sure. I've done this one without the captive inside all the way to full bracelet and it was a pain in the beginning, but I was having more a problem with that green ring and thought there might be something I was missing. Nope, just the old 'practice' adage I guess. hehe When I did it the first time, I actually had it hanging from my lamp with the same end wire idea, worked like a charm rather than trying to hold it! Can't do that with the captive, though.

And I thought it was supposed to be a captive ring every section, so that's what I was doing. I did get that one closed up properly (I think I was so frustrated with the captive I missed the closure, because I did it on another one, too) and got the flipped ring fixed, although THAT was a pain.

I do like the idea of having a 'starter' for some of these, I might do that. I have a bunch of copper rings that I bought as play rings, and might order 'other' rings in my chosen sizes on my next order for just such a thing. I've already been saving 'swatches' of different weaves just for myself anyway, they could also function as starters.

Thanks again! :)

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Alright, I thought I'd share this, don't know if it will help anyone (or if it'll even get a 'duh' reaction), but I can't imagine it really hurts. I figured out a 'trick' of sorts. Instead of putting down the captive ring, then adding the rings around above it, I found that if I add two of the rings, flip them back, put the captive ring down, flip them back up, then add the third ring, I don't lose that captive ring and it's easier to get everything closed properly.

If that doesn't make sense or someone wants pictures, let me know and I'll see what I can do. Might end up a short video rather than pics (the hubby has been out of town every week and he leave again tomorrow, and the dogs haven't figured out how to work the camera yet), but I'd be happy to.

The good news is I've got about half of the bracelet done and didn't really do all that much with it today, so I'll hopefully get it done tomorrow! :D Next will be playing with bicone crystals to see how to make them captive.

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And I thought it was supposed to be a captive ring every section, so that's what I was doing.

The great thing about mailing is that, unless you are directly copying another piece, for whatever reason---there are almost never any "supposed to-s". And many, many "mistakes" can lead to new patterns and weaves (new at least to yourself--at this point, good luck actually creating a bona fide new weave) or at least new insight to how what you are doing "works".

I think chainmaille can be a forum for you to escape those critics telling you what way or style to work. F*** 'em. Express yourself.

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Yeah, that's pretty much what I do, vyking... which is why I don't tend to get along with the majority of artist. heh (They don't seem to like my 'Well, people are paying me for my stuff so I must be doing something right!' comments when they tell me how I should paint. :biggrin: )

But I've got a lot of 'copying' until I'm ready to really start making my own stuff. Mostly I'll make a bracelet or two in each weave that interests me for my learning/practive. I will likely get there sooner than later, though. And with the weird way my mind works, who knows what I'll end up doing! :stuart:

And I'll see what I can do about pics. I find it easier to do it this way, but that doesn't mean everyone will, and I'm not sure if I'll be able to make it clear, so we'll see.

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Yeah, that's pretty much what I do, vyking... which is why I don't tend to get along with the majority of artist. heh (They don't seem to like my 'Well, people are paying me for my stuff so I must be doing something right!' comments when they tell me how I should paint. :biggrin: )

Just remind them Picasso had a lot of people telling him how to paint and his style is one of the most recognized in the art world.

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Yeah, I expect that middle green ring is likely part of the problem...it's likely making everything a bit to tight to work right--typically you set a captive in every other linkage---but like Euar said, if that's what you're going for, figure away around it...

Sorry, I'm a bit late to the party but this just caught my eye. Ummm, since when do you set a captive in every other link? I never have. Heck, in fact I usually put two captives in per section and then to allow it to bend leave it just as 1 captive about every three sections or so. The last necklace I made with 1 captive, I didn't have to leave any spaces. It all comes down to the AR you're using.

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Think I should have said...typically "I" usually skip every other linkage...but I shouldn't really even say that...I kinda went through a phase/craze when I was starting (and didn't have a lot of rings to start with (sizes I mean) and I made friggin' CIR like mad. Couldn't get enough. And really burnt myself out on it. I know lots of folks use it structurally, and lots of people try to stuff just about everything they can in there (see adult forums! ;) ), as well as beads, coins, rings everything. I dunno. Somehow I was looking at a bracelet on my bench that I've never sold (made it with machine cut stainless and copper and nickle silver---when I started out I tried machine cut because I was cheap---but after trying saw cut I'll never go back, and I'll never sell any of these things I made before because they are just sub-standard to me--I don't want them to represent my work anywhere---anyway, I'm way off topic...)...point is, it's been awhile since I've made it and that's the piece I looked at and it reminded me that is what I did to make it move fluidly and it spurted out of my fingers and onto your screen.

Thinking about it, it doesn't even really make any sense at all. It's ALL about the AR, for sure, and with a big enough AR you could probably fit watermelons in there if you wanted too. So I retract that sentence.

But I stand by the old, "If it feels good, do it" mantra. No matter what.

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I think I need to get in the adult forum now, just to see what's in there! heh And yeah, I was playing with swarvoski crystals but they wouldn't stay, at least not the sizes I have, so I just went on to the rings instead. I'll likely play with a lot of things to see what I do and don't like.

And I know what you mean about the saw vs. machine cut. I just knew (being crazy) that I wouldn't want anything but the saw cut... and accidentally ordered some machine cut bronze. This is because I really wanted bronze and didn't pay close attention to what cut it was. I'll make do with it and I'll use it, but I'll be much more careful with future orders for sure!

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Yes, do get into the adult forums. You may even spot threads where people use CIR for...ahem...toys. ;) At least, there were some quite a while ago. I haven't been in there in ages because I'm usually accessing this forum from work. :D

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Yeah, I looked around in there... Wow. heh Not sure that I'll really use any of it, but it's neat to see other ways the weaves are used! ;)

And I haven't forgotten about extra pictures... Tried taking some on my own, that didn't work out well, and my webcam... well, it sucks for anything close. Today has been a 'day', so I'm thinking tomorrow I'll hook up my real video camera and see what I get there (the battery on it was dead or I would have tried it today).

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Alright, I think I got some good pictures to maybe explain what I was talking about with the putting two rings in, flipping them down, tucking the captive under them, flipping them back up, and then adding the third ring.

CaptiveRingProcess1.jpg

Added two rings and holding them up with a piece of thread to keep them upright.

CaptiveRingProcess2.jpg

Flipped down those two rings down.

CaptiveRingProcess3.jpg

Tucking the captive ring under the flipped down rings.

CaptiveRingProcess4.jpg

Starting to flip the rings back up over the captive ring.

CaptiveRingProcess5.jpg

Both rings flipped back up, captive ring underneath.

CaptiveRingProcess6.jpg

Third ring put into place and kind of flopped over.

Hopefully this is clear, I've found this has worked well for me and it moves along a lot faster than trying to hold the captive in place while putting rings in, not getting them closed all the way, and then having to go back and reclose everything again.

I am using 20g, 5/32" aluminum rings for this project.

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Greetings, I've woven about 500+ meters of the stuff for my sculptures and I find the best way is to get some copper rings close to the size you will be working with and weave about 5 sections, the old fashioned way. Wrap some wire around the ends and solder one of the center sections solid. Unlink the sections around the one you just soldered and you will have a nice solid starting point for your CIR.

If you wrap paper around the CIR and then wrap tape over it, you can slide it up to lock the last CIR section in place if you have to leave to do something else. You can also keep sliding the sheath up as you work so it will keep the previous CIR section tight which will make it a lot less awkward.

I put two pics in the MISC gallery of some of the CIR starters I use plus an example of a paper/tape sheath.

http://www.theringlo...232-cir-sheath/

http://www.theringlo...1-cir-starters/

Resc

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I like the idea of your CIR starters, Rescyou, but you are the last person I would expect to ever need to use one! Once you've made CIR a few (hundred) times it's just so easy to start. I've done quite a bit in my day too, although I doubt I've reached the 500-meter mark.

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Thank you Resc. Don't know that the sleeve would work for me, but it's definitely a neat idea. The starters aren't bad at all, though, and something I've already been starting up. Thanks for looking and responding! :)

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I'm really glad I found this thread. I've been swearing at this for a long time. Had some time at Christmas to spend on CIR. Is this right? I know I have some pretty horrible closures on there. The last lot were only good for the bin after being opened and closed so much after I struggled with them.

IMG_0780_small_zps6e90d5c4.jpg

Nova

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That is indeed correct :)

Closures come with time.

Out of curiosity, how tight is it?

It looks like you might be better suited to single-ring-every-cage rather than double-ring-every-other.

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You will swear at this weave a lot until you find your 'groove' with it! I know I did!

And yes, how tight and what size are you using? I went with one ring, there was no way I would have fit two, even ever other, and get the closures good. Such a pretty color combination though, I love that!!

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It's not too tight. If you put a captive each cage it's completely solid, but leaving one open gives enough movement. The rings are 1.2mm by 6.7mm which I believe is 16ga from the queenring.com not the greatest quality but epically cheap. I looked at mailleartisans and the minimum AR for 2 captives is 5.5, which is what I have here, or at least I think I do.

Did a great hp-4-1 in black and rainbow ring colours, need to post that one but I'm away from the computer and don't want to get slated for posting massive uber scrolling pictures! :-)

Nova

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