Jump to content
Raven

Scalemail Hauberk (Complete)

Recommended Posts

I'm not qualified to comment on hauberk construction, but the design is very nicely done. The etched leaves, just to let you know, last time I looked, have the pattern on the concave side so you can't use those. If you were willing to drop money on etched scales, perhaps you could use AA clear brushed scales instead of the plain aluminium brushed ones, just to avoid getting oxide on them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These are marked on the product page as being etched on the concave side. Most etched scales are marked as being etched on the convex side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right, I see that now. I'll have to contact Ring Lord and see what's going on with that. Thanks for pointing it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand what you mean by that, Arctic. I'm not looking to have any work done as I fully intend to complete the piece by hand.

 

As a side note, TRL confirmed that you can indeed buy the etched scales with the leaf pattern on the outside.

I'll probably place my order in the next few days. If anyone spots something possibly wrong with the design, please do post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings Raven, 

 

If you are using the split rings, you will want the split ring pliers too; they do make your life easier. 

 

Your basic design looks sound at a glance, but there are a couple of possible issues you may not have thought about yet. 

 

That pattern makes a diamond shaped neck hole, obviously. Given the size of your head, you may find that the corners of your neck hole sit too far out on your shoulders and too far down the front and back of your torso for your liking. You might consider a keyhole type affair; remove a few of the center-line scales in the front and you can make the diamond opening a little smaller if need be. My noggin is nearly the same size as yours (25 in.) with a bull neck (19 in.) to boot, and I have found that rounded or hexagonal shaped neck holes are the best for me. In this case, I cannot recommend them since you often want the weight of spaulders or full sleeves to help keep the scales from sticking up when they are pulled horizontally across the weave like that. But a keyhole neck opening would avoid this.

 

Something else to consider, 45 degree patterns do leave visible seams; meaning you will see small gaps in your design. You can cover them with additional scales which you can also incorporate into your design, if you like.

 

Also, since this is your first scale shirt, you may find things do not fit quite as well as the paper says they should, so you might want to have some design variations prepared in advance. As an example, there are pictures of my first attempt in my guide. It (the darker, hardened steel shirt) is 8 scales long counting from the front center line up to the beginning the 45 degree seam. (That shirt has an asymmetrical neck hole which is why I specified the front.) Your design has 12. Now, since I did a closer fitting, hexagonal neck hole on that shirt, I would naturally have a lower count on the diagonal. But you might find that 12 actually makes too big a neck hole, or maybe not big enough. In either case you will need to alter your design accordingly to keep it looking pretty. Having some 'what if?' alternate plans could help keep matters moving along.

 

Since I mentioned asymmetry... Symmetrical designs are the easiest to execute, but not always the most comfortable to wear, depending on your shape and physique. Leaving sleeves off does make things much easier on you since you will not have to worry about how things will pull and/or bind when you move your arms, so you will likely not have many (if any) issues with a symmetrical pattern. If you do find you need a little more give here, or a little less there, then a few expansions and contractions will handle it. 

 

Good luck. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the insight, Paladin. I'll certainly have enough scales to play with once I place this order - over 4000 of them!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've managed to get to a stage where I can fit the upper torso part of the hauberk:

WIP Album: http://imgur.com/a/e252H#7

 

For a first attempt it fits pretty nicely, however I am getting a lot of issues at the edges. I am not referring to the lose scales, as I wanted to get the fitting right before securing them. Pictures 10-13 show me wearing it, and the top row along the front, and the entire shoulder have all raised up quite a lot. It looks like the shoulders may be too wide and are bunching up.

 

In picture 11 I adjusted its position, and it certainly looks like the shoulders are wrong. Any thoughts from people would be appreciated.

 

I am going to reduce the front width at the armpit by two scales on either side, but for the most part it is a good fit. I will probably narrow the next by one scale too, and begin investigating a keyhole opening like Paladin suggested.

Edited by Raven

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the pictures, it does look like your neck hole is a bit too big. Also, the width of your front panel seems a bit much too. If you hold your arms out in front of you, it is a good idea to have the scales stop at the crease where the biceps, deltoid, and pectoral muscles meet up until you get under your arm. If you do want to go for the keyhole neck, you might leave the edges alone until you've ripped out two vertical rows of scales and stitch the halves back together. You might find you need to remove four rows from the middle; from one of the pictures it looks like you might have that much extra space to work with. But I would do two first, loop a few rings back through to get an idea of the new fit (think of it like spot welding metal plates) and then decide if you need to go two more. Needless to say, this would also reduce the width of your front and back panels, and you might need to add scales back to the sides under your arms. Either way, getting the neck hole re-sized right will take care of those top front and back rows from raising and bunching.

 

I see there is a good bit of bunching on the shoulders too. If you don't want to do any spaulders at all, you can alleviate a little of that by adding the extra (butted, don't waste your split) rings to lessen the range of expansion. There are pictures of 'full 4in1' in the guide I did. Anywhere between the normal 5/16 in. and 1/4 in. internal diameter should work. Also, a bit of mail trim around the neck hole and along the arm hole could help too. Of course, some (even most) of this will go away once the neck hole has been taken care of, so worry about that first. Your 45 degree link was done correctly, so no issues there.  :thumbup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the tips, Paladin.

 

With regards to the keyhole, do you have any reference images you use, or an example plan? Here's what I have come up with based on my interpretation of what you have written: http://imgur.com/a/e252H#14

 

I imagine that isn't right, as the front and rear flaps would just flop without support.

 

Updated 25/04/2015

After looking around for some examples of keyhole scale, I found this guy on Deviant Art called DracoLoricatus. Looking at his front and back images, I think I've figured out the correct arrangement for the shoulders with a keyhole, and updated my pattern to match. I'll give it a try and see how it goes.

 

Pattern v3: http://imgur.com/nVIhHR9

Edited by Raven

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

His keyhole terminates in what looks like a contraction, which is why you see the two bronze scales doubled over. Nothing wrong with that, just so you know why yours might end up looking different for some reason. It also looks like he did a hexagonal neck hole, not a diamond shaped one. (I checked his gallery for more pics while typing this, but didn't see any that shows me all the details...) This means you may not be able to get the scales quite so close to your neck as he did. Again, no big deal as long as it fits comfortably; it's just another reason why yours probably just won't look quite like his.

 

With the scales, the flaps on a keyhole neck don't usually flop too much on a 45 degree seamed design like yours, so I doubt you'll have an issue. If you do, a few rings on the ends to run laces through will take care of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WIP #4 http://imgur.com/a/e252H#16

 

I have completed the neck and armhole adjustments, and just as Paladin suggested it is a big improvement. At this stage I am happy to commit to the sizing and finish all of the edges before continuing down with the main tube, including adding scales over the shoulder seams.

Edited by Raven

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update 16/05/2015

I've put a couple of weekends into the scales, and I've linked down to my waist with the pattern. I had to re-do the shoulders a few times to try different constructions, but in the end I stuck with that original 45 degree link with cover scales.

http://imgur.com/geqe9Uh

 

I realised part way through the re-construction that my entire pattern was about 1/3 too long - not much I can do about that now, but it is something I am keeping an eye on as I approach the hips/groin level.

http://i.imgur.com/pnOYoxi.jpg

 

One issue I do currently have are the cover scales sticking up. I may just end up taking them off, as I just can't seem to keep them lying flat.

http://imgur.com/bxvfsBJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can get a little more control over the cover scales. They will still stick up just a little bit, but will not flop around so much as in your pictures. Grab two new rings, slip them through the topmost/first cover scale and the rings that the next cover scale down is attached to, and work your way along the seam. As for the visual effect, the hardened steel shirt I made uses this trick at the 45 degree seams and the aluminum shirt uses it on the top of the spaulders. If you look at page 17 of the scale guide about combining techniques, the first 5 scales in that center row are part of the 90 degree seam and scales six through nine are cover scales with the extra rings attached. I don't have any other close up pics (that I know of) which shows it better. Done right, the new rings should lay in the same direction as the two rings the cover scale was attached to to begin with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the tip, Paladin; I'll take a look later on.

 

Update 17/05/2015

I have completed the pattern down to the trunk. As the pattern is pretty much almost as low as it can go, I am going to merge the trunk into the bottom, rather than having the root pattern. A shame, but I think it will be neccessary.

 

http://imgur.com/adf9fGu

As a slight side note, these are the rejects I have accumulated so far - a number of split rings I had to tweak slightly to get them to close, but these ones need to be inverted to restore their original shape. I managed to salvage all but seven of them. That gives me quite an interesting idea of the failure rate on TRL's products:

 

Scales: 4/2400, 0.17%

Of the four damaged scales, one was almost folded in half, the other three were bent near the hole.

 

Rings: ~200/4800, 4.17% (Salvaged: 7/4800, 0.15%)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update 07/06/2015

Whoops... http://imgur.com/9wT28QJ

 

After going up about thirteen scales deep to correct that, I finished up the last of my silver scales. I am about a hand away from my desired groin level, and from there it's all triangular. I have seven more scale rows, though I will try six to see how that lies.

 

Now to order more scales...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update 16/06/2015

I spent this weekend cracking on with the scales, and I reckon that next Saturday I should be able to complete the hauberk. I have a number of things to do at the shoulder joints, but the mass of the scale will be done.

 

http://imgur.com/M0wQEUp

 

As you can see the pattern was indeed far too long, so I blended the base of the tree into the bottom weave. I also used an expansion at the front and a contraction at the back to add vent flaps, which means I can sit down without sitting on the actual scales themselves.

 

I'm rapidly using up the last of my third (and theoretically final) order of scales from The Ring Lord. One thing I did take note of is that the quality of the split rings were noticeably different between the bags with a white panel, and the fully transparent bags. Almost all of the scales in bags with a white panel had a bulge in the ring, so rather than lying flat they have a slight raised section, whereas the scales in fully transparent bags were perfectly flat, as expected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Final Update 20/06/2015

With the final leg completed and the shoulder adjustments suggested by Paladin, the hauberk is done.

 

It'll probably be a while before I can get a decent outside image with kit, but you can see the completed item here:

http://imgur.com/a/e252H

 

~3000 scales, ~3400 split rings, and a whole bunch of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How cool is that. I've been following this discussion and it has helped me make alot of decisions and taught me alot. Thanks guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×