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maggotface

Looking to expand my ring inventory

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Hello,

I have recently (in the last eight months or so) started making chainmaille jewelry. I am currently using 16g 5/16 ID and 16g 7/32 ID, and I am looking to expand my collection of rings in order to make things like Helm, Dragonscale, Dragonsteps, King's Scale, Vertebrae (looks like a single row of King's Scale?), Japanese 12 in 2, etc.

I already do Euro 4 in 1, Byzantine, Rhinos Snorting Drano, Persian 6 in 1, Box, Persian 4 in 1, Barrel, Rosetta, and Bee Stings.

I still look at myself as a beginner, but I would like to be able to branch out. I am not sure which ring sizes would best facilitate that, without running into the "this ring size does not work with any other ring size" dilemma. I hope that is clear; sometimes I have a hard time articulating my jumbled thoughts. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you kindly!

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I generally use 16g 1/4", but I've recently branched out to 20g 7/64" in mainly do inlays but I also do Byzantine, box chain, and 4-in-2 rosette jewelry.

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How's your grasp of link aspect ratio, then?  You've noted some weaves and chains can best be done with links of certain ratios of link ID over wire D.

An organized approach would be to get the next size up in both wire diameter and link inner diameter -- and, mirroring this, the next size down.

It will save some time to never mind using gauge numbers, but use the measured wire diameter, for steel wire uses a different gauge from aluminum, brass, and copper.  Gauge numbers do make a convenient conversational shorthand, but in technical explorations like this, actual wire diameter is more useful.

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Jeff: I have thought about expanding into other gauges to do inlays, but I know I would have a hard time doing one without some kind of pattern to follow. Good luck with your recent branching out!

Konstantin the Red: I understand the math, and have printed out TRL's chart of AR for comparison, but practical application of AR is still somewhat vague to me. I worry that "going crazy" with different wire diameters/gauges on the same piece of jewelry/whatever would look strange, but that could just be my inexperience. I will try your suggested approach, thank you!

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I predict your inexperience will soon end!

Chainmail science ain't exactly rocket science, so you'll be able to pick this up pretty easy.

As you're a jeweler, I suppose your maximum ID ever, in a suitable wire diameter, would be somewhere around 3/8".  Suitable wire would measure anywhere between 16ga's .063" to .080" for 14ga -- in SWG anyway; aluminum and other metals in that range would also suit nearly anything you're likely to begin with.  Your minimum etcetera I'd guess at about 1/8".  That ID, wire in proportion, produces a very fine-textured mail, pleasant in the hand.  And of  course, with butted stuff, if you don't like what's coming out of your weaving, you can easily disassemble and start over.  Music, and for some people video, makes this less tedious so it's not a biggie.

I've never woven E4-1 at its minimum possible AR of 3.2 -- it's much less flexible there.  AR 4 is far handier all round, particularly for shirts of mail.

If mail teaches a young person nothing else, it will teach patience and even a little discipline.

Edited by Konstantin the Red

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It may, but I am really getting into "the rabbit hole effect" as I call it, in regards to a hobby; I learn/research how to improve something, which leads to other things, which lead to still more things. I was happy just doing some of the (to me) simpler weaves, but then I looked at RSD, which lead to Bee Stings, which lead to everything else. Like opening a door, and seeing a hundred more doors!

I hope so, I have a background as a machinist, so the math is no problem, just getting my brain to visualize a practical application of that math. Years spent being a mostly visual learner is a hindrance right now!

I had been looking at the really tiny micro maille stuff, but that would require further investment in tools, and I have large hands that do not always do the tiniest of things well. And, I would think that the strange warping of rings I am getting would be even more pronounced on something that small.

I do not think I will ever go beyond jewelry and inlays with Euro 4 in 1. All of the extra rules like "45 degree seem (which is actually 60 degrees)" just seems overwhelming.

More young people need hobbies beyond social media and those awful battle royale video games.

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On 02/18/2019 at 6:32 AM, maggotface said:

I do not think I will ever go beyond jewelry and inlays with Euro 4 in 1. All of the extra rules like "45 degree seem (which is actually 60 degrees)" just seems overwhelming.

 

Good thing that's not as convoluted as some make it sound.

The reason for the "45 degrees to 60 degrees" notion is an effect of Euro weaves' resiliency along one direction of the mailpatch:  that "row wise" direction where the links can compress together neatly and easily and be just as easily pulled out wide, to their fullest stretch.  This neat trick doesn't happen in the other, columnwise direction.*  Naturally, if one of these sides (or both, since it works either way) has been constructed on an angle, every row from bottom to top decreasing by one link, it will at full stretch be slanting at 45 degrees.  Now take this stretched out mailpatch and compress its sides, port and starboard, together.  Now what's that angle more like? -- or anything between 45 and 60 degrees.  So let's just remark that any angle like that isn't exactly permanent -- but it is repeatable!  Euro weave variants like E6-1 and E8-1 exhibit the same behavior to a lesser degree, because they have less room to move within links.  At least within circular links...

*I speak of "row" in E4-1 to be horizontal on your torso in wear, and along the resilient direction of the mail weave, so it contracts and expands very neatly.  "Column" is the direction perpendicular to row direction, and doesn't do that expand-and-contract; it is vertical on your torso in wear.  In a longsleeved mail shirt -- short sleeves aren't as tricky this way -- the resilient direction should run down your arm, to help with bending the elbow -- even the mailed fingers in a 13th-century comprehensive mail hauberk.  The elbow of such an open-hang "wrong way" sleeve needs some expansion slack woven in at the elbow, putting a distinct angle in the sleeve, in shape and angle a lot like the appearance of someone holding up a heeled sock by its cuff.  This added extra, put in using expansion links, allows the warrior to bend his arm without cutting off the circulation.  Very handy when wielding sword and shield.  And still not bad at all about coming off your arms when you remove your shirt.  The case is a little different with the greater size and drag of the body -- that part you want to make the shirt let go of when you doff it.  So you bend down to let it flop all the way open, and then you can haul the thing off you.

 

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E4-1 mail's resilient dimension is when the mail looks like the above, and may be stretched out to either side a good bit, and crunched back together as easily.  It is that property of mail that simulates elasticity.  Though when it hits full stretch, it comes to a full stop, no more, like a tow chain coming under load.  Of course, a steel chain is exactly what it is -- just in two dimensions not just one.

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I order rings from TRL. I think the "strange warping" comes from how I open or close the rings. I use saw cut rings, and when I close them, trying to get rid of as much kerf as possible, they always end up warped/twisted in a way that they do not lay flat. Even if you were to lay them individually on a table, they have a wobble if you put your finger on them and rock it back and forth. I just call it a "strange warp", because I haven't seen any mention of it anywhere. Not that I have done years and years of research, mind you.

Thank you for clearing up some of my questions about more complicated Euro 4 in 1 weaves! I really appreciate it! While I still feel like it is beyond my skill level at this time, I will definitely refer back to this information when I decide to expand into other things!

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