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Maille rose

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If you have to ask for a pattern, your skills may not be at a level that you can successfully follow that pattern.

I know my skills and abilites aren't to that level yet.

So let me ask this. Why do people make patterns at all if anyone that needs one is too unskilled to follow it? I mean how is it that craft stores can sell magazines full of patterns for jewelery or clothing or whatever if the people that want the magazine are incapable of following the pattern. Why do they sell patterns for Halloween costumes? How do all these craft classes teach their classes without some kind of pattern? Sure there's no pattern for the Mona Lisa, but to say that "if you ask for the pattern, you're too unskilled to use it" is WAY to general and just flat out untrue.

Anyone here that has made any weave... I don't care how basic... has at some point followed the pattern to make the weave. If you haven't ever used any of the tutorials/patterns whatever... on how to put any of this stuff together... then congratulations... you're one of the lucky ones. But I believe that most people here have at least used 1 or 2 patterns successfully. And I also believe that just because they did they were not trying to clone someone's work and that they are also not unskilled.

And Elemental Dragon... you're selling yourself short.. I've seen some of your stuff and I honestly can't believe you can't follow a pattern. Maybe not ALL patterns, I know I darn sure can't... but I KNOW you can follow some patterns. :)

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I don't think I have nearly the skill so many of you do and I am envious... but I think that some of the experienced maillers let experience go to their heads. They forget that they were once beginners...LEARNING....and suddenly become "Holier than Thou". I think the whole "if you have to ask you're too stupid to know" attitude really sucks. ... But to get insulted or offended and pissy and tell someone they're stupid or incapable of doing it because they asked?.... Get off the high horse.

You completely missed the boat.

There's no "Holier than thou" going on here. It's not "I'm too good for you." Note that this is my opinion *from the learning side*, no one's asking me for patterns for anything I've made, I'm the one needing to ask questions of others all the time. I just have a little more respect for people that create masterpieces than to ask them to write out instructions for me so that I can clone it... and a little more respect for myself than to spend my time copying.

I am damned sure, that if Dave gave me precise instructions for his chess set for example, mine would come out all lumpy and floppy. Instructions aren't enough. You need to have a feel for it that can't be conveyed in writing.

Generally, the toolset required to *fabricate* an item, and the toolset required to deconstruct a item, are acquired as a pair.

And also.. if you have the ability to duplicate something magnificent that someone else created, you have the ability to create something unique yourself.

When you clone another artist's project, you remove the uniqueness of that project from them, harming that artist. And further, after you've put in all this effort to get the final result, you've hurt yourself, because all you've ended up with is an unoriginal copy of someone else's work. With a bit more effort, you could have not harmed the uniqueness of the artist's original piece, and ended up with a unique and magnificent piece yourself.

Which is why I said, someone who's put in the time, to develop the basic skills, almost certainly does not *want* to waste their time just ending up with a copy of someone else's work. It's not the kind of thing an experienced artist does. It's not the approach to creating they take.

So, when you hear someone say "Can you give me a pattern", right off the bat you're probably safe to assuming "Sure, but, I doubt you could follow it", because simply by asking, you know they haven't learned that lesson yet (which I think for most people is learned pretty early on).

( -- Now's a good time to mention again, that I'm talking about an abstract case, not anyone the starter of this thread, who I assumed was, and has stated they are, looking for guidance and techniques, not mirroring instructions -- )


*shrug*, if you doubt me, look at my history. I'll help explain anything I can, to anyone. I'll usually explain it without anyone even asking. I'm happy to share all I can to help educate others and enhance the art. I'll even do research for other people, if I think I'll have an easier time of finding what they're looking for than they will.

So let me ask this. Why do people make patterns at all if anyone that needs one is too unskilled to follow it?

Did you miss the part where I said I think that learner projects, designed as such, are great ideas? I'm pushing to get a section on MAIL dedicated to this so that people are less intimidated trying to learn new things, and to take the uncertainty out of a project and just give them something they *know* will work, to help boost confidence and develop skills.

I'm particularly nosy on the little specifics. Every time I see two weaves joined in a way I haven't seen before, I pester the artist to see if I can get them to tell me how they do it, because I think the art is best served if everyone isn't spending their time reinventing the wheel. I always want the boundaries to be pushed, and you most easily accomplish that by giving people access to as much info as possible.

But that's completely different than duplicating someone's work, particularly a masterpiece likely out of your league.

Those're my thoughts anyway.

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I don't have a problem with the bulk of what you, or anyone else in this thread, have said. I don't think people should "clone" each other's work. I do think that re-creating can be a good way to learn so that you can expand upon what you have learned though.

The thing I really have a problem with is this comment made in a few posts in this thread with the basic gist of... "If you have to ask, you're incapable of doing it". It comes off as "snooty: and "better than you" whether the commenter means it to or not. I think it comes off as an insult to anyone that wants to learn, and if I were a total noob I'd look at that like..."geeesh...guess I won't ask THESE people for help". It's completely off-putting. Some might not see it as... "you're too new for this level of work still". (which is what I think some of you might be meaning?)

It's just too general and unspecific.

Again... I do not think everyone should just hand out patterns for people to follow. That should be totally up to the designer and if the designer doesn't want to than the requester needs to respect that and quit asking. But I don't think the designer should be insulted because someone asked.

In my opinion...if you take offense because someone liked your work enough to ask how you did it (without harassing you about it) than you're too hung up on yourself and you need to take a step back, get some sun, have a margarita (or some chocolate milk)...whatever.:cool: (I'm saying "you" in a general way here... I'm not referring to anyone specifically so don't hit me :D )

okay. gonna shut up now. maybe the dogs will let me sleep tonight and I won't be so friggin cranky tomorrow. Hugs to all... even if I'm arguing with you... I'm really not trying to be a "you know what". :beer:

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For all of us that were deemed incapible of doing sculptures because we requested a pattern, I present a pattern or atleast in progress pictures and explaination of how to make the flower I just completed.



1. all rings are from TRL

2. this was made form limited ring sizes because I am still realitively new and have not built up a huge stock of sizes yet.

3. This was my first attempt at making a flower... not exactly as nice I would have liked it to be, but I will continue working on improving my technique.

I hope you enjoy and please post any improvements that you may have

I like it a lot! Great work. :)

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