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Shadows

Didn't sell a single thing :(

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This is a wonderful forum with people being so helpful and supportive. I'm amazed to get so many replies to my post and it gives me so much to think about.

Svarney - thanks for the advice on sizing. Also, I know you're right about people not reading signs - already had plenty of experience with this. I have almost decided to remove all signs actually because I was thinking it would be a good way to engage people to have them ask about materials etc; so I see your point that telling customers about sizing would be a good way to engage them.

Dunedon - Yes, I think you're right at looking for areas where people have more money to spend. I've been looking for the themed events but there doesn't seem to be many of them here in Australia... but I'll start asking other vendors at the markets - it might all be inside information.

Derailed - Thank you for this break down. I can see how thinking in this more orderly/structured manner could help... once I find out where all the different events are held. I think my stock is a very small range at the moment too and have been thinking about expanding it so given what I've read here I now think I'll try to find out where I'll likely be selling before I decide what else to make.

Legba3 - I did some chain mailleing in front of customers last weekend. I think it did help people to understand how the items were made - didn't help with sales at that particular venue but I think it will help at more up-market ones.

Lady Belladonna - I think you are right that the availability of commercial products were damaging my chances - I think mainly because that's what people came to the markets for. I haven't been able to find any markets that only allow hand-crafting vendors in but some do say they give priority to hand-crafted goods so these are the ones I'm checking out this coming weekend. Fingers crossed I'll find one that is classy.

LizPf - This sounds like sound advice. I also come from an artists background but I guess my foray into mailleing is about trying to find a viable way to work and make money. I'm still definately trying to find the type of people that will not question the price and compare it to mass-manufactured goods.

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I wanted to ask people why they would look for so long, pick something out and then elect not to buy but my friend who was with me said this is confrontational and rude. I didn't want to upset anyone especially as there's a possiblity they would try to find my stall again at a later date.

Having had many years in sales from $15 CDs to $10,000 cruises, I consider finding out why someone doesn't buy something from you a requirement of the entire selling process. This is especially true if they stop and watch for some time. If you don't get the sale, you need to find out why. Otherwise, you're going to spin your wheels a lot and potentially go in wrong directions trying to solve "problems" that may not be there.

That said, there is certainly a right way and a wrong way to do it. Essentially, you need to find out why they stopped to look, what intrigued them and then why they didn't feel like parting with their hard earned cash. As I'm not really going to write an entire sales and marketing lecture here, it's all about overcoming objections of people that are almost ready to buy.

You need to be able to talk to people and find out if they think your items are...

Too expensive? - hand made and personalized, not mass produced.

Too feminine/masculine? - different weaves/designs available

Too big? Too small? - resize at no cost & discount if major reduction

Wrong colour/metal? - offer different metals

Just curious as to what you're doing? - learn some history of chainmail and talk to them about how it's evolved from soldier's armour into wearable art

As I believe I mentioned before, sometimes you need to stop and actually *ask* for the sale, again.. politely. Get them to try things on rather than just pick them. If you offer necklaces and earrings, make sure you have a small mirror for them to see how it looks. Learn to knock away each objection one by one and you'll see the sales come.

Also, I don't believe it's been mentioned, but have business cards and give them to *everyone*. A pack of 500 cards from an office printing place generally isn't very much - and looks far better than the print-offs from a laser printer... those look very amateur to me and say "I'm not serious about this" but as I said, I do have a sales & marketing background. Spend a few bucks and get a simple website. It doesn't need to be loaded with photos and prices and complex programming... just a few well imaged items and a means to contact you.

Good luck & keep at it,

Grif'

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Thanks Griffin de Stockport. I'm still learning my way through the sales side of things. Are you able to give me an example of how you'd find out a person's reason for not buying. For example, if someone picked up a finger ring, looked it over, tried on all the sizes, found a good fit and was standing there staring at it on their finger - what would your next step be?

I've got some professionally printed business cards and keep them at the front of my table but hadn't tried handing them out actively. I've had some odd behaviour over business cards too - people who will pick one up, stare at it as though memorising the contact details and then give it back insisting they don't "need" it. That one really stumped me as no one is asking them to part with money to have a business card.

I do have a website but really its just a page holder at the moment with a few images and a "coming soon" message - very unprofessional I know. I'm working on the real website though - should have it up by the time I am next at the markets.

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Thanks Griffin de Stockport. I'm still learning my way through the sales side of things. Are you able to give me an example of how you'd find out a person's reason for not buying. For example, if someone picked up a finger ring, looked it over, tried on all the sizes, found a good fit and was standing there staring at it on their finger - what would your next step be?

I suggest a direct question that cannot be answered by yes/no. For example "Which weave do you like the most?", and follow it with which do they dislike the most.

Then if they say they dislike the heavy chain you can introduce them to some aluminum for example.

Another trick is to always have a nice bracelet in progress that is a bit too long for anyone and no fasteners. When the customer seems to be almost done browsing you can politely ask them if you can use their wrist for a quick moment for sizing as they have similar proportions to the person who requested the custom bracelet. If by chance you have similar wrists you can express the difficulty doing it one handed. The customer get a feel of the chain, and is suddenly very aware that you are making it on the spot.

I've got some professionally printed business cards and keep them at the front of my table but hadn't tried handing them out actively. I've had some odd behaviour over business cards too - people who will pick one up, stare at it as though memorising the contact details and then give it back insisting they don't "need" it. That one really stumped me as no one is asking them to part with money to have a business card.

Pro business cards are nice, but I handle them two ways.

I more often just buy nice card stock and print my own and they look as good as any from a printer. I use a $30 laser printer that is only black and white with card stock that doesn't have a heavy texture that will effect the printing.

This allows me to make cards as well as earing cards that also have the same info on them as the business card.

Also I take the cards, punch a hole in the corner and attach a tiny weave sample with a small string, ribbon, and even used that ball chain you can get at the hardware store. So I don't offer them a card. I offer them a free sample that has a card attached. I just use a a byz link, a small bit of box, or maybe a florette as the charms. Never had one refused.

I also want to try some of my larger aluminum HP3-1 woven through holes on the end of the cards.

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Thanks Griffin de Stockport. I'm still learning my way through the sales side of things. Are you able to give me an example of how you'd find out a person's reason for not buying. For example, if someone picked up a finger ring, looked it over, tried on all the sizes, found a good fit and was standing there staring at it on their finger - what would your next step be?

Derailed pretty much hit it. In sales and marketing, there's open questions and closed questions. An open question is one that that the person being asked provide an explanation for their answer, a closed question really leads to a "yes/no" type of answer. Open questions are sometimes referred to as leading questions too depending what you read.

For that situation you suggested, if they were that intent on the ring, I'd take it that they loved it and just needed the nudge to buy it. Depending on the situation, I'd be so bold as to tell them what forms of payment I accept, and if they'd like a box for it or if they just want to wear it home. Maybe something like how well it fits them and just looks so natural for them. What I would not do at that point is start throwing other options at them, as that may lead them to reconsider or have doubt about buying it.

Sales is an art, not a science. You just have to learn to play the game. :)

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quote=Derailed;

Also I take the cards, punch a hole in the corner and attach a tiny weave sample with a small string, ribbon, and even used that ball chain you can get at the hardware store. So I don't offer them a card. I offer them a free sample that has a card attached. I just use a a byz link, a small bit of box, or maybe a florette as the charms. Never had one refused.

This is a GREAT IDEA!!! I love it!!!

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"I wanted to ask people why they would look for so long, pick something out and then elect not to buy but my friend who was with me said this is confrontational and rude. I didn't want to upset anyone especially as there's a possiblity they would try to find my stall again at a later date."

This was already addressed (well), but here's a reinforcement from an introvert who thinks talking to a stranger is the fate worse than death...

1] You can't find out the answer to a question if you don't ask it. There are all kinds of reasons why people don't buy right then. Many of them are addressable (I love the "problems to be fixed" approach), but you have to know what they are before you can fix them. Yeah, I want to say "Why aren't you buying that? It's a great piece for a great price and you look great wearing it." Only half of it should be asked aloud, with the last part first. Face it, nobody really NEEDS jewelry for basic survival. You should be trying to convince the buyer that he/she would be better off with the piece than without it, and part of that is the validation "it looks good on you/it fits you/ the color of the earrings really makes the color of your eyes look vibrant/ etc, etc. If they're looking at a piece, even briefly, they have an interest in it. Your job, as a salesperson, is to build on that interest.

2] re modesty/shyness/introversion - It's difficult, if you're naturally reticent, to become outgoing. The introverts understand this, the extroverts kinda don't. This is a hard one for me, but I have a Theatre background to draw on, so I do. Part of what I say to myself is, "You're an actor, ACT like an enthusiastic extrovert!" (I'm really not an actor, I'm a techie, but that doesn't help so much.*grin*) You can think about it as almost becoming another person, not my quiet shy self, but one who wants to interact with people, solve their problem of an obvious lack of maille, and see them happy with what they buy.

I also think if you can partner with a person who's not like you, they can help you carry it off. I have sometimes shared a space with a friend who really IS outgoing and obviously, easily friendly, and I find it easier to act that way with her reinforcement.

Hang in there - you'll find your own style and success.

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I really appreciate that this thread is still going and that people are so willing to give of their advice.

I have been visiting different market locations over the past few weekends and its been a real eye opener. In the past I would only pay attention to the crowd numbers at any given markets not to the number of sales happening. I have now noticed that even at the major markets in my city not many sales are happening at the jewellery stalls (and that there may be far too many jewellery stalls for everyone to make enough sales to cover stall fees). I found one really classy hand-made only market in my city which was small and not the most bustling - I saw a few sales and I think a lot of business cards were handed out. I'm starting to think one of the major benefits of doing markets is the follow-up enquiries/sales - not so much the on the spot sales.

I started to think hard about who comes to the markets intending to buy and think the biggest single category that does would be tourists looking for keepsakes. I've now started looking at some tourist locations up and down the coast. I'm still looking for the right place for me but think this is the best chance I have to sell enough until economic certainty and confidence picks up. I'm also thinking of trying to add maybe some pendants or something of native animals, major landmarks or other things that might appeal to a tourist... I would do my own style but not sure if its too cheesey anyway... I've really noticed that the gimmicky and touristy items are the ones selling the best at the vast majority of locations - even in the city.

Derailed - thanks for the pointers on getting the customer speaking. I love your idea of offering a free sample. Also, on the self-printed business cards - do you use the perforated cardstock or just card that you cut with scissors. I considered printing my own but didn't like the idea of the jagged edges of the perforated stock and wasn't sure how I could cut cards to uniform size otherwise.

Griffen de Stockport - When I first read about how you'd nudge the person towards the sale I felt like it'd be really pushy.... but then I stopped and thought about it - sometimes people just want to be guided and if you don't guide them they might feel uncomfortable and leave. I know I've walked out of shops where the sales people made me feel uncomfortable. Thanks for this moment of enlightenment.

WinterWind - thanks for your reply - I do feel like you understand a fair bit about my personality. Point number one is a good one - I'm a painfully honest person so I do have to be careful not to say the whole bit when I open my mouth - need to think carefully... but what you've said makes a whole lot of sense and I'll try keeping it in mind next time I'm selling. Point number two is a difficult one for me - I'm a woeful actor and have a tendency to match the energy of the person in front of me... if they are being non-committal and avoiding eye contact I will tend to respond with the same awkward distance. I have been taking a friend who is much more outgoing than me and I'm trying to learn from him as he has a real way with people. At the moment its a bit awkward for us both as he is still trying to get up to speed on the technical/jewellery side of things and I'm still trying to get up to speed on the social/sales side of things. I'm sure we'll both get better at it all in time... for people like me it just takes a bit longer and I may never have the flare of a natural salesperson but I'm sure I'll get better at it.

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Derailed - thanks for the pointers on getting the customer speaking. I love your idea of offering a free sample. Also, on the self-printed business cards - do you use the perforated cardstock or just card that you cut with scissors. I considered printing my own but didn't like the idea of the jagged edges of the perforated stock and wasn't sure how I could cut cards to uniform size otherwise.

I use card stock you can by at a print shop. last time was a "Staples" outlet at five cents a page, and I get a dozen cards out of an 8 1/2" x 11" page. I use a free card formatting program, but it can be done in office applications as well from down loadable templates.

The card stock is not perforated. I have a simple paper slicer you can get at any of the stationary stores/craft stores that you can cut a page at a time perfectly straight. They cost between $10-$20 here, and the blades are replaceable.

Here is a more expensive example. Many cheaper options are available that work.

http://www.staples.ca/ENG/Catalog/cat_sku.asp?CatIds=&webid=755509&affixedcode=WW

It's a bit tedious but they come out as well as any card you can buy.

I then punch and fasten an eyelet or two to the card that I can tie, or weave a sample on.

I have some examples here somewhere. I'll try to dig em up and throw up a pic or two of them.

Mind you I don't throw a card at every passer by. I tend to offer to the customers that seem to be on the edge of making a purchase, and just as they seem to be disengaging I offer them the card from the pile I have visible. I have had notable response from this as many will return later to make the purchase, because they had the sample in their possession reminding them, or they had the chance to show the sample to other interested parties.

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Shadow, where abouts in Australia are you? I'm up in the blue mountains, just started selling at a monthly market....it's growing slowly, but handmade is tough to sell when the place is full of resellers.

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Wow, I started reading this thread because I had the same experiences at my local small town fairs/farmers' markets and I ended up learning a bunch. I had almost the exact same things happen to me. People would come and handle everything but I only had one sale - a copper E6-1 bracelet - out of 3 shows. In the end I got a lot of exposure but couldn't justify going to any more shows because of the cost of the fee. Nobody that took my business cards ended up contacting me afterward even though they watched me making things at the fair, I had website, etc.

By contrast, just about everything I have ever sold has come through people I know, word of mouth, friends wearing my creations and the sort. I have to say that it's discouraging to not sell at craft fairs, especially if you can only afford the less costly materials but I think you just have to kind of stick with it. Being shy/introverted makes it all the harder. Good luck in finding a location and combination of goods and pricing that works best for you! God knows I'm still searching for mine...

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Xiztance - hi, I'm in Brisbane but checking out markets anywhere in SE Qld within reasonable driving distance. Its good to hear your sales are growing slowly. My feeling on competing with resellers is that you're not selling the same thing and your customer isn't the same person... however, some markets people come to for the resellers - not for the handmade.

At the first location I tried, on my first day, I was next to a vendor with cheap (and cheap looking) imported, mass-produced jewellery which he was selling at a rate of about $5 per the handful. The people buying from him would never buy from me - he did booming business and I made no sales... I think the only answer, at least for me, is find hand-made markets so I don't have to try to sell to that type of customer but rather to the customer that comes for hand made goods.

I've never been to the blue mountains area but assume maybe there aren't many options for markets in that area? If this is the case you probably have both types of people coming to your markets - the ones for the resellers, and the ones looking for hand-crafted?

I hope things continue to pick up for you - its great to meet another Aussie here too!

Jax25 - If I work out the secret formula I'll let you know! Best of luck with your search.

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I've real all the post and for the newbies at selling chainmail I have just a few words of encouragement. Don't give up.

I started selling mail about 3 years ago (2006). Original investment was $200 from my tax return. bought pliers, clasp, tumbler and rings. started selling to friends and family only. by the end of the first year I was doing shows and events. My first 2 shows ended with a loss after expenses. but I kept at it. by the end of the 1st season though I was getting calls for special orders. mostly from cards I passed out at the events.

Last year was a bust for me since I had to move from PA to OK because my grandmother got ill and had to move back to take care of her.

So in a way this year I kinda started over but Im now at the point that I beleive by the end of the year my business will be going well enough that I can consider it my full time job.

One way I have grown it especially when i've competed with resalers is I can offer something they can't. Custom sizing and custom creations.

example, I do a lot of bike rallys, you can get vest extenders at any of them for $6, they are nothing more than nickle chain between 2 leather ends with snaps to attach to a vest. I make mine with Anodized alum in a jap 8-1 pattern and sell for $10. I had one customer who thought that was way to much and was very vocal about it. but once I pointed out that I could custom make them in just about any color and that they are one of a kind.. he ended up buying a set of 4 which i gave him a discount of $5.. Now next month I have an event coming up where his bike group is going to be and I've been told to bring a couple of dozen in the same color combination because "his freinds would like some also".

I have a sign on my table saying I do custom sizing and orders, this helps a lot, particularly when im busy with customers, I also work on items at the table which always draws a crowd. I visit with the customers, this puts them at ease, If they think you are approachable they begin to see you as a freind and are more incline to purchase.

As of now I do not have a store online but do have a site on bravanet free web sites with examples of my work and an up coming events page. This is new for this year and I have found I am getting more repeat customers showing up at the events.

So far this year I have only had 2 events that i haven't done well on but at those events I was approached by organizers for other events which I have done and did do well.

Dont give up, you never know how things will turn out. And dont be afraid to try new tactics.

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unfortunatly i am not a seller like these experienced guys, i just like buying things and keeping busy, my only piece of advice is to try not to scare the customer. I like going to art festivals and such, but sometimes you can overinform the customer, i once was walking up to the teller to buy an item and he started franticly rambbling off information about the product talking about how much the item meant to him and how much work went into it, it scared me, creeped me out acctually, i became scared of having something created buy that man in my house like it was a peice of him.

most people will not know the weave designs, and you dont have to tell them unless they ask, most people want to know if they are getting something original and not just mass produced art, and wether or not it will turn their skin green for a week....(bad memories)..

im not sure if this will help you, but you are selling yourself when you sell those items you create, smile, talk about things that are not related to your work, ask them about themselves, build a relationship, this will get you the best long term repeat customer results.

i have friends who go to the same seller every art festival and buy his stuff, that is in no way attractive by any means, they dont even wear it, i have honestly never seen them wear any of his stuff cause it matches nothing! but they like him, he is nice, and funny, he sells himself

well thats all i got, good luck to ya

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I know it is a couple of months after the fact but I wanted to add a little bit to what others have already stated here. :)

First of all, always ALWAYS work on something (anything!) while working a stall or table, at any kind of event. People are curious by nature (and some people love interrupting, heh) so when they see you working, they'll want a peek.

Whenever you notice someone looking at your items, or watching you work, acknowledge them. Just a small smile, and "Hi, how are you?" is all you need to start off with. It might get them talking and you can start to elaborate more if they're curious about what you're doing, what your items are, etc. Also, be sure to tell everyone that approaches your table that you can make custom items on the spot, in any color/weave, lengthen or shorten. This is a good segue into telling them that all of your items are hand-made by you! My spiel usually goes something like, "If something doesn't quite fit, let me know! We make all of our items, so we can do adjustments on the spot. We can also do custom color combinations if you're looking for something else...?" This leaves it open for the customer to give you an idea of what they might like. It's also a good way to do some market research, even if they don't actually buy anything. ;)

When doing different shows, adjust your prices and try them out. If you haven't sold anything at your current prices, try adjusting them even $10 higher, and see if that works. Do this for a week or two and if it doesn't work, come back down by about $5. If still nothing, try reducing farther. Just go back and forth a little bit and see where it settles. It's always easier to reduce prices from the last time than it is to increase prices. It takes a while but you will find your niche. Trust me!

In addition, don't count on only selling silver and fine metals. Those will cost YOU more money, and when you're just starting out, that can be kind of tough. What you want to do, is find something great about the materials you are using, and play it up! Remember, you're trying to let people know why they want something. We do sell a lot of aluminum pieces, because we tend to sell at sci fi/fantasy/anime events. The cost of materials makes our pieces more affordable to younger folks (teens, young adults), while we do offer some more complex, higher-priced items that adults in their 30's and 40's seem to appreciate more. What we like to do when we push our aluminum pieces, are note some of the benefits, like being lightweight. We have two lengths (about 1/2 yard) of box chain we keep at the front of our table, one made from aluminum and one from stainless steel. We invite people to pick them up and feel the difference. When they feel the difference on that scale, it's easy for them to agree with us that aluminum is indeed lightweight, and easier for wearing with costumes, etc. (it can look "hardcore" without weighing you down, heh!) If aluminum is what you are primarily working in right now, do some research on the material, find out the benefits of it, and use that to tell people why your product is interesting.

Yet another thing we like to do is "test run" jewelry pieces. I have my trusty necklace I always wear; my husband has a rubber and aluminum bracelet he wears on a daily basis. Because of this, we have pieces that can be shown to customers to let them know how the jewelry wears/ages. My husband's bracelet is worn during his day job, which is tending to outdoor water meters, so it goes through a lot of different elements. He can tell people, "This is my day job, this is what the bracelet suffers, and I've been wearing it for (this long) and it's still holding up." It helps to show the quality of your materials. People like to know that the bracelet's not going to just get scratched up. (and I must say, always ALWAYS wear your own jewelry to promote it! Keep business cards on hand away from your table because you never know who might ask about it! We've passed off business cards at drive-thru fast food windows!)

If you are selling at a special event, and you have friends attending, make some quick, inexpensive bracelets for them to wear. Even if your friends don't talk about the jewelry, chances are people will notice "those cool bracelets" and when they stumble across your table, they will say, "Oh, so this is where those came from!" Having your wares in the view of the public helps to put it into their minds. Similarly, chain maille jewelry makes for a great gift, and you can customize it for the person you are giving it to, if you know their favorite colors, if you know they like dainty vs. bulky pieces, etc. It's a unique gift and it was made by YOU, which the recipient will surely enjoy! When you give away pieces, you're inviting others to do the "test run" on your jewelry, and they can later offer testimonials, feedback on the items, etc. And who knows, maybe their friends will ask where they got the jewelry!

As to business cards, I love the idea of attaching a sample weave to a card as a reminder! Great idea! Something we have found that has success is scattering your cards at various places on your table/around your booth. When we have a table at a convention, we place a (~yard long, ~3 chainlets wide - think "belt length/width") piece of European 4-in-1 at the very front, and then set a bunch of business cards with just a corner under the length of maille, scattered so that people can pick them up. I also make sure to have a small stack of business cards placed at either end of the table. Make the cards highly visible and all over the place, so that people think to take one, and so they also know absolutely, without a doubt, whose table this is! :)

For an idea of what I've described for what we do, here's a link to a photo of a typical convention set-up:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=7827776&l=60d3251150&id=611440458

Finally, maintain a web presence. Above all else, this seems to be important. Create a Facebook "fan" page. Sign up on Etsy.com - it's quite inexpensive to list items there. Post your work on DeviantArt. Find other places to get your work visible and "out there." Our table sign has logos for DeviantArt, Facebook, Etsy and Livejournal, so when we talk to people at conventions, and someone takes a card, I tell them where we can be found online. Even if they haven't bought anything, if they add/watch you on these sites, that's free advertising through them to their friends.

Hope these tips help... Good Luck!!! :)

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wow, where to begin.

a lot has been said about markets, and gearing to your customers, and yes, this is critical. also, every word about engaging your customers by talking is important.

you mentioned maybe haveing a space to work on stuff durring the show, and this is very very important. when I was activly selling, I would have at least 20 pieces that were about 15-20 min from done, so that I was almost always Just finishing a piece ( the just finished pieces sold befor I could put a price tag on them at least half of the time)

another very important point is, how are you displaying your work?? do you have bracelet bars, and necklace forms, to hold them up, visible? or are they only laying on flat surfaces? it is best to have several necklaces, and over half of your bracelets vertical, people see them, and come over to look closer. that combined with you sitting there, actually makeing a piece will get much higher volume of customers in your booth. you said that the ear rings were getting a lot of attention, are they hung vertical?

when they come in, dont just focus on getting them to buy, if you talk about the materials, and tequniques you use, the history, and the fun in learning it, you have made it more interesting to them.

you said you have a lot of blue coller, middle class working people comeing through your booth. this lends itself to a slightly moe industrial look. use stainless steel, in several sizes, for bracelets, and necklaces. also, varry your weaves as much as you can. and have the same bracelet in several colors/materials if you can.

a good idea, also is to have things like juggleing balls, dise bags, belts, and such there as well. and, if you can have a WOW!!!!:eek: piece. either something spectacular, like an amazing inlay, or wall hanging, or even just a hauberk. something people will cross the walkway to touch

most importantly, you are not selling jewelry, you are selling yourself. know your work, and be excited about it. your passion inspires their payments.

sheesh, I type a lot:D... good luck, and if you ever have any questions about anything, dont hesitate to ask..

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