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Cutting Jump Rings Foredom vs Jump Ringer

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I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out which system to purchase. I've been cutting my own jump rings with a jewelry saw but I'm ready to cut larger quantities faster. However I also want them to be cut clean. I'm looking at either the "new improved" jump ringer basic by ray grossman which states it will cut sterling and softer metals from 6 gauge to 26 gauge. I don't think I'll ever cut thicker then 12 gauge and mostly I'll cut 14, 16, 18 gauge sterling but I would like the option. The other system I'm considering is buying th Foredom SR Flex Shaft 2230. I know that with the foredom I need the appropriate attachments and blade to cut the jump rings but I just want to know if the Foredom has the torque and power needed to cut jump rings in sterling silver up to 12 gauge but mostly (as previously stated) 14, 16, 18 gauge sterling. I would like to dabble in Niobium (one day) and if you know if the Foredom can ever cut these stronger metals with the appropriate blade please let me know. Will the foredom ever be capable of cutting stronger metals and will it cut sterling in 12, 14, 16, and 18 gauge? Or will the Jump RInger basic do a better job cutting sterling silver? I know there is a jump ringer system for "all metals" but ultimately I just want to know what the maximum cutting capacity is for the Foredom Flex Shaft SR 2230 vs the jump ringer system. I want the cleanest cut possible. I will definitley be tumbling after cutting but I just want to make the best purchase and all the tool suppliers give me conflicting info... From ottofrei to rio grande they both say different things and one of them even said different things just by speaking to 2 different people at the same company.. Please HELP!! Thanks... If I've confused you please email me =) and I'll try to rephrase without running you in circles lol

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Neither.

Get yourself a ringinator, works much better than either of those, and is cheaper in the long run. It was actually built by another member of this board.

http://www.Ringinator.com/

I bought the jr a while ago, now I'm waiting for the EZ to come out so I can upgrade and dont have to use a drill press anymore.

Cheers,

jj

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The Foredom is not a ring cutter; is is just a flex shaft. In fact the jump ringer used by many jewellers needs a flex shaft to work. The secret to making rings is keeping the coil aligned with the blade. One can not do that by hand which is why so many different jigs are made. For small quantities the jump ringer above works fine. I personally do not like the Ray Grossman version as speed control can be difficult; too fast can burn rings and break blades, at slow speed the drill can overheat. These are more of an issue with sterling as it burns easily. Looks like the Ringinator EZ may have the same issue though one could probably substitute a flex shaft for the drill. The Ringinator SR is probably the most flexible and easy to use.

Movak

Edited by Movak

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I personally do not like the Ray Grossman version as speed control can be difficult; too fast can burn rings and break blades, at slow speed the drill can overheat. These are more of an issue with sterling as it burns easily. Looks like the Ringinator EZ may have the same issue though one could probably substitute a flex shaft for the drill.

Movak

This is the first I hear of this issue. Exactly what seems to be the problem? What do you mean when you say "sterling burns easily"?

Edited by Martin

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Another poster had an issue with replacing the drill with a flex shaft. He ran the shaft at about 18000rpm and it causes the rings to melt rather that cut. Huge kerf and burrs. If the blade is not perfectly aligned with the coil travel there can be friction between the side of the blade and the ring causing heat and faster oxidization. Also cutting at too high RPM wears blades much faster.

Movak

Edited by Movak

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Any drill with a variable speed controlled by a rheostat can have this problem. I have no idea if the ringinator EZ uses the drill's trigger or a seperate PWM control so it may not apply.

When running the drill slowly enough to cut most metals, especially stainless or titanium, the motor and switch can overheat due to the high torque, low speed application. This will eventually burn out the drill.

Some drills, use a multi speed planetary gear transmission to get around this problem but most don't. I believe that some newer drills may use PWM controls.

Other tools such as drill presses or lathes use either pulleys/gears or PWM for speed control precisely so they can run at a very slow speed.

On the other hand, if you're using a $20 drill to power your ringinator EZ, then maybe you don't give a rip if it overheats.

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I know that with the foredom I need the appropriate attachments and blade to cut the jump rings but I just want to know if the Foredom has the torque and power needed to cut jump rings in sterling silver up to 12 gauge but mostly (as previously stated) 14, 16, 18 gauge sterling

Like I said in my original question I know that the flex shaft is just a motor but is the motor strong enough or is there enough torque or enough rpm's or little enough rpm's to cut the metals I want to cut. I mostly work in sterling silver but am looking into niobium too. Sterling Silver is my main metal though however I want to cut rings in Sterling Silver from 12-24 gauge and the OD of up to 15mm.. I just want the best machine for cutting those specificcations the cleanest and easiest with not too much maintanance. I know I need to use lubricant but I keep reading some things need a steady flow of coolant and water or liquid oil.... And that scares me.. I don't have a shop I'm doing it in my home.

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The "new and improved" jumpringer that's powered by a drill is horrible, it's a waste of money. We had three in the shop and they eventually just got taken apart so we could use the drills for coiling.

The old style jumpringers that are powered by a foredom tool are finicky and slow and can't cut thick or hard metals. They are only supposed to be used for wire diameters up to .082"(14 gauge) and ring diameters up to 12mm.

Niobium is much more difficult to cut than silver.

There are no saw cutting rigs that absolutely need a steady flow of coolant, but all of them run faster and cooler if they have one.

As several other people have already mentioned the ringinator is probably the best machine available for cutting the rings you want.

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The speed regimentations from Dremmel are not relevant to cutting rings. They are generally designed for making single cuts in sheet or rod where the heat will be dissipated by the material being cut. When cutting rings that is not the case because there is so little material in the ring. The ring and blade gets hot, the blade looses temper and the blade dulls. You will find a number of charts for cutting rings that decrease speed for steel. The rule of thumb when cutting rings is start slow and increase speed until heat becomes an issue. If you can not touch the ring after it is cut and left to cool for a minute then you are cutting too fast. If you see smoke you are cutting way too fast.

Movak

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mmmm...necromancy...just to post wrong information and try to tell one of the better informed members of this board he is wrong. Nice going sport.

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From the Ringinator website, 5 October 2010:

"Notice:We are temporarily sold out of the Ringinator. We expect to have more in stock by late September. If you would like to order one, it will ship once we get them in stock. As a bonus, we include a free blade with all pre-orders ($10 value)."

I use a Dremel 4000 ($80), a Koil Kutter ($80) and Malco HSS 1.25" OD x 3/8" ID x .010" jeweler's slotting saws with 120 teeth ($6-8 each). I am very satisfied with my setup, but I do go through a fair amount of saws. I order them 10 at a time.

For 18 gauge Argentium, gold-filled and 514 phosphor bronze I cut at around 14,000 RPM and use dishwashing liquid for lubricant.

For 20 gauge anodized niobium I keep the coils very short (1-inch) with bur-life stick rubbed directly on the coil for lubricant and cut at the Dremel's slowest possible speed.

The Ringinator "Cutting Speed" page recommends cutting niobium at 80 - 120 feet per minute; with my 1.25" saw that comes out to 245 - 367 RPMs. I spoke with Curt of C&T Designs in Colorado a couple of weeks ago, he cuts niobium at 350 RPMs.

The same page also has recommended cutting speeds for virtually any metal you could want to make rings out of: titanium and titanium alloys, stainless, galv, carbon steels, silver, copper, brass, bronze and aluminum. The url is:

http://www.ringinator.com/?page_id=53

I'm just a newbie to this forum, but I share in the hope that it will be helpful.

If anyone has any recommendations/tips/tricks on cutting 19g enameled copper I'd appreciate some help with that.

Edited by titanias-garden.com

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Many of the people who have replied to this thread are pretty knowledgeable. Then there are some like me who was confused. Saw Feet per Minute. Was the speed the coils were fed into the cutter or was it the actual speed of the saw blade as it rotated in feet per minute?

So I did some math and Eureka. It is the speed the cutting edge turns in feet per minute.

The math for the "Confused" goes this way. Blade diameter in Inches times 3.14(Pi) = edge diameter in inches. Multiply by shaft speed in RPM(Minutes) = cutting edge speed in inches per minute. Divide by 12 = edge speed in feet per minute.

O.K. Now I know. How do I determine the blade speed? I remember a strobe device that was variable so the exact speed of a rotating device. The thing was pretty big and awkward.

Anyone have any idea what it is called or where I may rent one for a day or so?

Thanks Mike

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I remember a strobe device that was variable so the exact speed of a rotating device. The thing was pretty big and awkward.

Anyone have any idea what it is called or where I may rent one for a day or so?

Thanks Mike

It is called a laser tachometer. You can get them on ebay for about $30.

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