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j_betts

Scales won't lie flat

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I've been trying to build a bracelet out of small scales but the rows constantly get jumbled. I have 4 rows of scales done, and row 4 seems to want to slide over row 3 and makes the thing into a mess. Would having more rows stabilize this?

I'd like to make it into a bracelet instead of a full bracer, so if anyone knows a way to keep it the width I currently have I'd love to hear it.

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I don't play with scales, but typically I've noticed with most mail, you can stabilize by adding more rows of rings. have you thought of weaving on some sort of edging in a non-scaled variety?

Another question might be if you examined to see if your rings are too large? The more AR, the more free moving a weave will be.

And have you tried checking your weave for missing parts/misplaced rings/etc.?

And considering that some people who talk scales mention various ways of backing, what method are you using? E4-1?

Just curious.

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The edges will always be slightly unstable. As the piece gets larger, there is more center that is stable.

Some alternative methods of adding stability are to...

1. Add an edging to it. (Can probably find other threads on the forum about it, such as This one) Searching "Scale edge" should probably work fairly well for this forum and MAIL.

2. When adding a scale, add a ring along with it. The scale seems to act as a weirdly shaped ring, and adding a normal ring can adjust the weave to be more stable if done correctly.

3. Use slightly smaller rings on the edge.

With my small quantity of scale work, I have only tried and have been satisfied with method 1.

Another good question to solve your unique stability problem would be...

What direction would the bracelet be running and where are the stability problems occurring?

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I'll try adding a bit of edging. I just seem to have the issue due to the general weave being too loose, and the scales are slipping out of where they are supposed to be. I'm using the size of butted rings that is recommended for small scales. Is that too big for a narrow band of scales, and only intended for larger pieces?

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I'll try adding a bit of edging. I just seem to have the issue due to the general weave being too loose, and the scales are slipping out of where they are supposed to be. I'm using the size of butted rings that is recommended for small scales. Is that too big for a narrow band of scales, and only intended for larger pieces?

my guess is that they might be slightly too big. I know that TRL recommends a particular size, but my guess is they recommend that when working with armor or sheet-like pieces are being constructed, and flexibility is a bigger concern. I say this because I also notice that a lot of the more armor-centric mailers tend to use bigger AR's than I do for jewelry purposes, and say that they do so for added flexibility. I also know, because I've looked in the past, that TRL recommends something like 22 or 24 gauge rings, which are quite tiny, and they don't have much smaller. Instead I'd say to try a butted ring a gauge size larger (20 instead of 22 or 22 instead of 24), if you have them on hand. Just experiment a little bit. You'll want tiny ass rings, as they shouldn't be too intrusive and the gauge difference will probably make smaller adjustment to your AR than going an ID size smaller, yet it's enough of a difference to make a noticeable change. Besides, a gauge size might give it JUUUUUUUST a little more strength (not that in jewelry strength is a huge issue, but you don't want something to fall apart just looking at it).

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if you're building your pattern top down, in a cylinder, you might just need an extra row of rings or two at the bottom to stablize it. The scales use a japanese 4-in-1 style weave and they hold in place better when they're 2 rows of scales up from the bottom, due to having a) all four rings in them and b) the next row having all four rings in them. Try adding rings and tell us how it does.

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if you're building your pattern top down, in a cylinder, you might just need an extra row of rings or two at the bottom to stablize it. The scales use a japanese 4-in-1 style weave and they hold in place better when they're 2 rows of scales up from the bottom, due to having a) all four rings in them and b) the next row having all four rings in them. Try adding rings and tell us how it does.

That is exactly what I'm doing. It would also explain why the top two rows seem to work fine, but things get weird after that. I'll work this out tonight and report back tomorrow.

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It sounds like adding an edging would solve the problem you are having. The previous post already linked to has a link to my solution for this as well:

Scale dag edging

Treat a straight edge as though you have a row of very short dags and this method will work for you as well.

Scales will also start pointing outward when sideways tension is put on them. By using a chain along the top edge you can avoid this. A simple row of Japanese-style 1-1-1 chain in 18ga 3/16" standing rings with 16 ga 5/16" flat rings will have approximately the right spacing. As done here:

http://twilightbanana.deviantart.com/art/Scale-belt-48330451

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It sounds like adding an edging would solve the problem you are having. The previous post already linked to has a link to my solution for this as well:

http://twilightbanana.deviantart.com/art/Scale-dag-edging-48330019

Treat a straight edge as though you have a row of very short dags and this method will work for you as well.

Scales will also start pointing outward when sideways tension is put on them. By using a chain along the top edge you can avoid this. A simple row of Japanese-style 1-1-1 chain in 18ga 3/16" standing rings with 16 ga 5/16" flat rings will have approximately the right spacing. As done here:

Scale belt

The edging I added last night really helped out. Now all I need to do is work out how I put a hole into the weave of scales, and to fix it. You would think that in a weave where you never connect two rings together it would be easy to notice a problem,but no. I had what looks like E 4in1 starting to form in one spot. I'll rip it apart and try again.

Thank you to everyone that helped me out.

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